Your Bright Presence, with Selena Rezvani

The light is almost at its zenith for the year, and the Sun’s reach can show us a lot about our relationship to confidence. How comfortable are we with our own presence? In this conversation with Selena Rezvani, we explore what it means to “right-size” your confidence, how to get the body on board with feeling more powerful, and what confidence can do for your path ahead.

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Welcome to A Wild New Work, a podcast about how to divest from capitalism and the norms of modern work, and step into the soulful calling of these times we live in, which includes the call to rekindle a relationship with the earth. I'm Megan Leatherman, a mother to two small kids, coach, writer and amateur ecologist living in the Pacific Northwest, and I'm your host today.

Hi friend. Welcome! I'm so glad that you are here. I'm coming to you nearing the summer solstice. It's almost here: the longest day of the year. June 21st this year, and the light has been growing since the winter solstice in late December. The days right now are so long, the sun is so vast and far reaching, and this time of year I like to tune into that and remember just how generous and necessary and expansive sunlight is, you know?

Yes, it can be too hot or oppressive. I usually just sort of wilt under a hot sun, but it's also so consistent, so inviting, it makes the all of the colors pop. It warms our skin and without it, I mean none of us would be here. It literally makes the world go around, you know. The sun never shirks from its place in the sky and we don't need to hide or shy away from our own presence in our lives, either.

Our confidence and our self-belief can be a source of warmth and life and energy to those around us.

This time of year, I always think of one of my favorite poems by Daniel Ladinsky, purportedly by Hafez:

Even after all this time

The Sun never says to the Earth

"You owe me"

Look what happens with a love like that

It lights up the whole sky

So, I will have an episode next week about the summer solstice specifically, but I just wanted to kind of put this in your ear for now so that you can be thinking about and observing and attuning to these long days and how they inform you, your body, your spirit, and what they might be wanting to show you about where there's more light and warmth and presence needed in your world - in your inner landscape and your outer landscape today.

I also want to remind you one last time, if you are in the Portland area or in the Pacific Northwest, next week is my all day summer solstice retreat. I know you have heard me talk about it in many previous episodes, so I won't say much here, but if you are ready to cross from spring into summer, internally alongside the earth as we move from the spring to summer, come join us. And you can learn everything you need to know at awildnewwork.com/summer-retreat.

The sun is here to bless us every day, but it can also guide us in our conversation today, which is all about illuminating your working life with confidence. And our guest, Selena and I talk about what that word even means. It's such a commonly used term that we can lose sight of what it means to actually embody it.

And Selena will talk a lot about right sizing your confidence, and I think that's an expert, lovely way to put it. This feels a lot more relatable than just "grow your confidence," "get huge." Let me introduce our guest, Selena, to you.

Selena Rezvani's dual mission is to help women and underrepresented groups carve out paths to leadership and to help employers make bold bets on diverse talent. Through her training and speaking program, Selena addresses thousands of professionals each year covering topics related to leadership presence and self-advocacy, how to be an ally and the future of work. Selena's the author of three leadership books, including the brand new book, Quick Confidence, all about how to push past fear and make a bigger impact in your work life.

I think you're really gonna enjoy this conversation if you have had some wonky feelings around confidence; if it's something that you struggle with, something that, like me, I sort of... kind of roll my eyes at because it's just so overused. But I think the way that Selena approaches it and talks about it is actually really refreshing and emboldening.

So I hope you love this conversation. Before we dive in, I will start us off with our opening invocation to set the tone. And wherever you are, you can take a big, deep breath. Notice how your body is feeling right now. Notice yourself in time and space.

May each of us be blessed and emboldened to do the work we're meant to do on this planet. May our work honor our ancestors known and unknown, and may it be in harmony with all creatures that we share this earth with. I express gratitude for all of the technologies and gifts that have made this possible, and I'm grateful to the Cowlitz and Clackamas tribes among many others who are the original stewards of the land that I'm on.

Well, Selena, thank you so much for being here with me today.

Selena: I'm so glad to be here, Megan. Thank you.

Megan: So, can you tell us a little bit about how you came to write a book about confidence? What sort of led you to this topic in particular?

Selena: Yeah. Well, for so long I felt like that generally good, but second or third choice job candidate. You know, like making it into the running, but just unable to actually get the spot and, and secure it. And so often it was not my competence or my lack of skill, but my confidence that kind of stirred up doubt, and I think others out there can probably relate to that experience. And I can still remember one particular opportunity, this huge, awesome spokesperson opportunity I got about 10 years ago, and I was getting ready to release my second book and just so pumped and over the moon about this opportunity coming.

And as the days got closer, I felt so eaten up by my doubts. Just, you know, having those thoughts of like, Was I invited by mistake? Do I know what I'm doing? Can I really pull this off? And I couldn't shake it. And as that interview kind of unfolded, I look back at it now and see, I really gave them like the diet soda version of me in terms of my ideas, like my presence, even the belief that I belonged there.

So over the years I've honed in on these little practices that we can adopt day to day to grow our confidence. Not in a fake veneer kind of way, or a just throw a mask on and then you can get the job. No, but in a lasting way so that you have confidence you can tap in those "capital B" big moments like the one I described. And so I think of it a little bit like when you plant seeds every single day, little seeds, it adds up. You continually kind of have this harvest of confidence in the future. And that's, that's what made me wanna bring Quick Confidence to other people.

Megan: I love that. Thank you. The, yeah, "the diet soda version of myself." That's such an apt metaphor. One of the things I really appreciate about your book is how you approached confidence in a way that is not as shallow. You know, the term has never really landed for me because it does feel like just this posturing or this thing I have to like manufacture that's not genuine. But I think the way you approach it is a lot more sustainable. Can you tell us how you define and work with confidence?

Selena: Yeah. Thank you for saying that. And you know, I see it as developing this knowing belief that you'll either excel or you'll learn. And for me, it has been an ongoing practice.

Defining confidence in a way that doesn't over focus on failure and the risk of failure, but brings more of a growth mindset that again, you're either gonna excel and you know, succeed in some way, or you're going to learn and grow and, and those are kind of the paths in front of you. I think it's a lot more encouraging when we see doing bold things in that light.

I think another aspect of confidence is knowing you have just as good a chance as anyone else to step up on a stage or to learn a new skill or to stretch what you can do in some way - even to weather not so great conditions, you know.

And I think there's an important aspect to defining confidence where we normalize our chances of success. You know, we don't discount, which a lot of people I coach, you know, tell me they struggle with discounting what they bring to the table, but somehow saying she's ready, he has the right experience, they have the perfect background for this. But me, I don't have that - the right setup. So I think there's something important to be said about that.

And for me, a really big piece of confidence isn't just self-directed or self-centered, but it's something that we can extend to other people. And I'm sure for you too, Megan, for a lot of people listening, I know this has been the case for me. Some of our best teachers and mentors saw potential in us, you know, and they gave us some kind of signal of confidence.

You know, they gave us a little nudge, as I like to call it. So I see there being a thousand little ways that we can give people around us, especially people who are overlooked, who are underestimated, who are marginalized, a micro affirmation, you know, a little extension of confidence. A vote of confidence, and so that's an important part of the definition for me, too.

Megan: Yeah, I love that - sort of taking it out of the individual, but also a community of confidence. One of the things I really like about that is that it's sort of right-sizing the confidence because it feels different than like an oversized ego where I have to trick myself into believing I am the best at this thing. Right? But I really like how it's more just coming up a little bit and saying like, I, maybe I'm just as good or I fit in, there's a place for me here, which just ecologically feels a lot more natural just in terms of how, you know, plants and animals work together in an, in an ecosystem. Not overpowering one another, but just each sort of unfurling into their own space.

Selena: That's such a beautiful both visual and insight, and I couldn't agree with you more. And I think what's interesting is, you know, we've all been with somebody or been in the room when somebody had too much bluster and too much confidence, and it felt unearned, over the top. And I think that's absolutely something to be avoided, and that's out of equilibrium in a sense.

But I think just as toxic in a way is the far other extreme where we're feeling such a lack of confidence that we don't share our idea in the meeting, you know. We don't apply for the role that is so interesting and exciting to us. We don't ask that person for a coffee or to get to know them, you know, because we've kind of told ourselves "no" before they do.

So when I think about that continuum, I see dangers on both sides. And I'm really shooting for this, this magic middle where there's some healthy entitlement, there's some healthy entitlement to say, no, I'm gonna give my idea oxygen and share it with the group. It's okay that it's not bulletproof, that it's not something I've been contemplating for three straight years or researching non-stop, you know, giving ourselves some of that license to put ideas forward even if they don't meet some really exceptional bar.

Megan: How have you seen confidence act as sort of a buffer or protector in maybe toxic work environments or really competitive environments, and maybe especially for those people who are already navigating identities that might be marginalized or they're already trying to navigate in a place that, you know - as everything here - rooted in white supremacy and capitalism and patriarchy, how have you seen confidence come in as sort of a protective element or a buffer for people?

Selena: Yeah. Well, I'd say, I wanna acknowledge that when you're in a toxic work environment, which does a number on most of us, right? We're porous, we're absorbent, we can take on the environment that's around us easily. So I wanna just acknowledge how hard this can be to continue to cultivate your confidence or invest in yourself when you're maybe getting messages that are the opposite, you know about your worth.

Maybe people are making you feel badly, or it's a high blame culture, and where you're constantly feeling on edge, worried about making a mistake, whatever it may be. I think one of the things we need to take care of our confidence, you know, one of the reasons we need it is so that we can speak up about the way things are. So that we have the boldness to leave.

That's a huge aspect of a toxic culture, is kind of voting with your feet. That's the best vote of all, I think. I think also not waiting for a kind of signed letter from the universe. That it's okay for you to free yourself from this awful, you know, uncomfortable, bitter workplace. Right? Whatever it may be.

And that can sound very simple, I know, to just, oh, detach from it. But I think if you can't, there are some other things you can do while maybe you're staying there and strategizing to move to a, a better, healthier kind of workplace. And I think one of the things to watch out for, or just know is there is something called stress contagion.

And most of us intuitively know this exists, this idea that we can hand stress off like a baton. If I'm feeling calm and suddenly I enter the room with you and you're frantic, it's not uncommon that I might take that on.

There was actually one really interesting study about this that showed teachers who had higher levels of burnout. In those classrooms, students were likely to have higher levels of cortisol as a result and stress. So this stress contagion is real. And most certainly, if you're feeling that chronically around you, you may be mirroring it. And I think one of the things I wanna caution people from is matching the energy around you when it's really toxic.

You know, sometimes it can feel like, well, I didn't invent the game. You know, I'm just kind of playing by the rules. But if you're fundamentally not a jerk and you're in this high blame culture or culture full of favoritism and politics, you know, and you kind of match that, you're gonna have more residue to scrape off you later.

And so that's an important thing, by the way, one I've fallen prey to in my own life. I was in a toxic work environment in my twenties and I became a little toxic. And it wasn't until a friend said to me, "Selena, I know this place kind of stinks, but you're complaining is making it worse," that I got the kind of smack I needed, you know, to see, ooh, I'm kind of matching the energy of this place.

I think, again, if you are there and you're needing to tend to yourself, which I really encourage you to do, I think fundamentally remind yourself, check in on your safety. That's our primary need psychologically is basic safety. So even reminding yourself if you need to do it daily, I am safe. That is our first need.

I think wherever you can, creating some distance from that toxicity, from that toxic workplace or people. Maybe you have a friend who really likes texting you about all the drama and the fresh latest, you know, issue that's come up or scandal, and you just don't wanna hear about it - being very clear that you're gonna create some distance and separation.

In that same line of thinking, formulating some physical feel goods that can offset some of the environment you're dealing with all day. You know, for someone that might be like taking a bath, being around friends who lift them up. For somebody else, it might be like a guttural scream, you know, to let go of, of the buildup that can happen when you work at a place like this. But I have the, the utmost respect for anybody dealing with this and trying to find better.

And I'd say just my final thought on it is don't be an island.

This is a time, even if you're feeling crummy and a little bit lower about your life or, or even yourself, this is a time to continue to talk to your network, to tap them, to find some of those opportunities that are gonna be better for you, that are often, you know, not publicized.

Megan: Thank you. Yeah. I love that you brought in the physical piece of this, because I know that's something that you're cognizant of too, that we can talk about confidence, but it also needs a place in the body and impacts our bodies . I'm curious if it's even possible to really show up in the fullness of ourselves in a stressful environment where we feel unsafe, that it's hard to do that, but what are some of the physical tools that can help us build confidence, even if our mind is very loud about all the reasons we don't belong here, can't do this. What are some of the sort of simple ways that you have found to be helpful in cultivating a felt sense of confidence?

Selena: Yeah, I love how you put that. And I have a few up my sleeve, some that have made a huge difference in my life, especially at the beginning of my confidence building journey. And one is something I call dog code.

I have a two year old Newfoundland puppy and she's so good at this, but when somebody comes to our house, what does she do? She doesn't sit in the corner and overthink, should I go say hi to them? You know, she doesn't talk to her doggy friends about it first. She is unafraid to be the first. To go right up to that person and greet them warmly and with a lot of licks in her case.

But I think there's something we can all take from that. You know, it's the opposite of like the "don't talk to strangers" message we might have gotten as little kids. And, and what's really cool is when you habituate initiating contact, it can almost double your confidence. When you do this day-to-day, it becomes a lot less scary to simply go up to the new person at your organization and say, "welcome, I'm Selena. What's your name?"

Or the person at a networking event where maybe there's a little circle of people already talking to walk right up to that group because you've made it a habit and say, "hi, I'm Selena. Can I join you?" Or somebody even maybe in your, your work life or your friendship group who like the group hasn't historically had the best relationship with, to be the first, even with that person, you know, to kind of build a bridge.

So I love the idea of initiating contact. It can make it so much less scary than when you're on a train or you're in a new situation with people you don't know to strike up dialogue. So, I love the simplicity of that and the, the results.

And then I think our, you know, animal friends have so much to teach us about confidence.

When we're in a situation, like you said, Megan, and maybe the signals, the cues, the people around us aren't giving us the feeling like we belong. Maybe we're at that networking event and everyone's kind of turning to people they know. No one's really making an effort or engaging you in a situation like that.

It would be incredibly easy to shrink, to kind of make low eye contact, to be a low talker, to maybe resort to the corner of the room. I think a lot of us would understand that impulse to do that, but I think there's actually something to be said in moments like that for doing the opposite. For being willing to be conspicuous - to kind of, like I say, celebrate what your mama gave you and claim space in that room.

This actually happened to me. I was very excited to go to a lunch of leaders I really respected, and I felt so honored to get invited to this lunch, too. And a little bit people were doing that. They were turning towards the person they knew, like kind of feet away and the signal felt loud, like we're, we're good. You know, we don't really need to engage. And that urge was so strong in that moment to kind of melt and hide. And I was like, wait a minute. I had to stop and say "I earned my place here as much as anybody." And I want to be here. I want to, you know, hear the speaker today, and I wanna be part of this event.

And doing that, doing the opposite of what my body felt, you know, kind of standing with my shoulders, with my feet shoulder width apart, being willing to - to the people I did talk to - gesture, and have my arms kind of expanding and away from my ribcage to speak at a volume, you know, that was clearly audible, not the low talking.

It did something so powerful. It kind of sent a really powerful signal to my brain that I do belong here. And I'm not gonna shrink away from this moment or this place. And so I think there's something wonderful about that. And, and again, across the animal kingdom, when animals wanna say, I'm here. Notice me. See me. When they wanna be in touch with their power, what do they do? They tend to expand. They claim their full space and sometimes more. And then some, you know. You think about a cat with it's arched back and it's tail all fluffed out saying, I'm here. And I think there's something really interesting we can learn from those expansive behaviors versus the more constrictive kind.

Megan: Yeah, totally. I love the feedback loop that can happen. Even if I'm not feeling like I wanna be expansive in a space, just moving my arms in a certain way or standing up a little taller, I don't have to believe it, but I can act it out, and that creates a change. And I like what you said about, you know, you being at that luncheon, like reminding yourself that you chose to be there, you want to be there. You don't have to be that way all the time. You know, for myself especially, I could do that for maybe an hour and then I'm gonna need to go home and like decompress. You know? Like I can't be that all the time. And I think there is some pressure to sort of be that constantly, but letting ourselves have the time when we're there and really enjoy it and take up space and make the most of it, but also not expecting it to come naturally all the time if we are more introverted or more sensitive.

So yeah, I appreciate everything you shared in there. Anything else you would add in terms of some kind of embodied ways to work with this?

Selena: Yes. I love the point you made too about integrating this as one part of how you operate. Like you said, not feeling pressure to constantly or always be at the level you might want, let's say when you're networking. So I think that's awesome.

I think there's another really important piece of advice when it comes to your body and your physicality. So many of us find ourselves in very crowded conversations, you know, and I think when we're virtual, that can become even more confusing - how to make our voices heard, how to make our presence felt in a meeting.

Maybe it's a meeting we really care about, but it's hard to get a word in edgewise. It's hard to find that natural opening. And let's be honest, there's lots of over talkers, right? Who might see that quiet moment and seize on it because they're, you know, really good at spotting those moments of quiet and kind of jumping in.

And so I think one of the things we can do when we're feeling that way is have a few go-tos to make our voices heard. Let's say somebody's interrupting us and cutting us off, practicing maybe in a lower stakes part of our life, maybe with a family member or a friend, practicing what it feels like to carry right on talking.

When somebody cuts us off, rather than yielding maybe saying, "oh, but Megan, can I finish my thought please?" You know, seeing how it feels to continue talking and then if you need to, you know, making some kind of observation about, you know, what's happening. "That's the third time I've been cut off. I'd really like to finish my point." Using our voice is a huge part of our physicality.

I think one other thing that we can do is when we're in a situation like that, maybe we were cut off, the conversation topic has been changed, you know, maybe we feel we've missed our moment.

You can reenter a conversation by coming in even one decibel higher than the chatter of the group. And so it's not yelling, you know, it's not like shouting, "look at me," or "here I am." But it's a subtle cue to the room that I am reentering this conversation and I have something to say. You know, listen, so if it was at a seven out of 10, you're coming in at maybe an eight out of 10.

Megan: Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah. Using the voice literally as a way to show yourself that you can be there and contribute and yeah, be part of the conversation when needed or make space for others too.

Selena: Yes. That's huge. And like what an ally skill.

Megan: One of the other things that I loved about your book and your frame is this idea of keeping promises to ourselves as a way to build confidence and like you referred to earlier, kind of giving it momentum and practicing and making it more of a habit so that it's not so scary, so that we can stretch into a different way of showing up in the world when needed. What else could you say? That was like a very, my very brief, just take on it, but what do you mean by keeping promises to yourself? What are these promises? How do we keep them and how does that help us to build confidence?

Selena: Yes, this is something in my research, and I go in depth in it in Quick Confidence, that I found that the most confident people do keep promises to themselves. And, and if you think about it, it feels good when we honor a promise.

You know, most of us learn this is like part of right and wrong from the time we're little kids, that this is something that's important to do, to follow through. And it's true if I'm like, Megan, here's your five bucks back. Here's your sweatshirt and I'm giving it back to you as I promised, when I promised, in the same way I promised it. Most of us get a little ego cookie. You know, we feel good about ourselves. An esteem cookie too. And you know, the same thing applies to ourselves. And I think before I go there, I just wanna say the opposite is true too.

So there's research... the London School of Economics reported on this, that it depletes our energy when somebody breaks a promise to us. You know, there's a change and the same when we do that to ourselves. So if a confident person says, I'm gonna apply to that exciting opportunity tomorrow, they're protective of that goal. They're protective of that time. It's not wishy-washy. It's not kind of maybe written in light pencil on their calendar, but it's a little more untouchable.

That's my plan. I said I was gonna do it, and I'm protecting that goal and that time to do that. And so, On the flip side, if they say, I'm gonna reach out to that interesting connection of a connection tomorrow, and they don't do it, it can erode your confidence. You can start to see yourself the way you might see, let's say a flaky coworker, you know, who you just can't rely on. Like, yeah, I like them, they have good ideas, but when it comes to reliability, I can't really bet on the fact that they're gonna follow through. And, and that same frustration we feel with somebody like that, we begin to feel about ourselves. And that's not the kind of scaffolding, you know, you want supporting you in those "capital b" big moments we talk about, you know - an important interview, a meaningful meeting with somebody, a big presentation. So I tell people, make fewer promises to yourself if you need to. Or think about shrinking the size of your promise. You know, maybe it's not a whole week's worth of work you're telling yourself you're gonna do on Monday, but it's Monday's portion, a doable portion. Do that. It's a great way to show up reliably for yourself time and again.

Megan: What's important to know about, like, the quality of the thing that we're promising, or does it need to be something that's really aligned for us? Or do you find that it's more about the follow through? Like if I promise myself I'm gonna like prune this hedge versus I'm promising myself that I'm gonna contact this person that I wanna have on, or whatever, does it matter how much I want the thing or is the most important thing just that I follow through if I say I'm going to. Does that make sense?

Selena: Yeah, it does. And I like your question. It's a really interesting one. I think about, are all promises created equal? You know, if it's, it's a work thing versus maybe a passion project thing.

And I think one of the things I'd recommend is Rewarding yourself. So I'm thinking about like a, a yes / and kind of situation here, but giving yourself rewards. I think one of the ways we grow confidence is to praise progress. Not just sparkling results, but progress and effort. So if there was a situation where maybe you wanted to reach out to a podcast guest, you could give yourself a small reward, a little thing that makes you feel good, and maybe classify them differently. A promise versus rewards that feel good. I think it can be incredibly motivating, but research has been done on this too, and it actually shows that the best rewards that work for us, for motivation's sake at least, tend to be small.

So not a plane ticket or something, but more of a small token like reaching out to a friend or pruning, you know, the garden you love or maybe a small like physical action or, or gift.

Megan: Oh, that's so interesting. I assumed, you know, the bigger the thing, the better. But why do you think it's the smaller things that are more impactful for motivation?

Selena: It's a really good question and I think. I'd have to speculate on that about the, the studies that have been done, why the, the big ticket thing feels maybe a little more hollow. You know, I think we could speculate that a self-gift that's so large maybe doesn't exactly challenge us to get back out there and try again tomorrow, or, you know, run with a different task that we need to do because maybe we wanna get on that plane or we wanna take that trip. So I think smaller morsels, you know, that there's something to be said for rewarding ourselves more frequently. Most of us probably can't do the plane ticket, the giant gift as frequently as we'd like to really power our motivation so little it is. And little is something we can do for ourselves.

Megan: Oh, I love that. I'm gonna keep that front of mind now. How have you seen confidence help people sort of illuminate next steps in their working lives or bring new, well, I can guess how new opportunities come through, cuz you know, this confidence or this type of energy is sort of magnetic and can create a resonance around you. But how have you seen it help people understand what they want for themselves or create that for themselves?

Selena: Yes. I think it's so exciting when you see somebody building confidence, and there's a few ways I've seen it manifest you know, in particular with people I train and coach around quick confidence.

One is simply speaking up for yourself more, and I mean things like communicating strengths of yours, needs, wishes. You know, and, and so not just saying, let me settle for suboptimal here, but that willingness to speak up and propose something better, something different, something more kind of timely given what's going on around you.

I think another way confidence has helped people really show up in their careers and get more aligned maybe with their values or with things that really matter, is being willing to elevate an issue, to escalate a concern, an issue, and, and speak out on it. For example, I'm thinking about somebody who grew confidence and proposed more inclusion and diversity work at her organization, you know, and a willingness to spearhead some of that.

But that willingness to say, I'd like to see more representation here. I'd like to have an organization that better fits, you know, the world I wanna live in. And you know, a piece of that was the confidence to propose it and stand in that position. To take a firm position and back yourself. So I think that's a huge and really important thing, and I love seeing people apply confidence in that way to make their organization more inclusive or welcoming to people.

You know, sometimes it's just also knowing when you're right. A lot of times we get, you know, dismissed. We might get the "vague no," as I call it, you know, like a brush off the first time we bring something up. It could be an innovation, it could be an idea to promote a junior person who we think is very deserving of it, right?

There are so many times where we're speaking up and, you know, we might get that brush off. So something to be said about having the confidence to go back two or three more times and say, how about now? How about under these slightly different conditions? Or, you know, with this small tweak to my proposal. That willingness to be tenacious. And so those are some of my favorite ways I've seen confidence kind of illuminated in people's journeys that I train.

Megan: Thank you. One of the things that stood out in the anecdotes you shared is this, sort of like standing and then you sort of described like standing in that or coming and sort of being in this question. And I get this sense of like presence rather than, you know, you've mentioned in the book like not... being conscious of how you use silence and not having to like over justify, explain and just like sort of keep talking because we're so uncomfortable, but like making the ask and then just being in that, you know, and being in your body and just staying there for longer than is probably comfortable.

Anything you would add about that in terms of how confidence can support you in sort of staying steady when you've made the request or the statement?

Selena: Yeah, it really is about staying steady, isn't it? And I think this skill of strategic silence, it's hardest if you've gotten messages in your life that you should be agreeable, you should be easy to work with all or most of the time, that that's a top priority, that you should be reassuring and accommodating.

It can be really pressurized of a moment when you're negotiating for something, let's say, and someone tells you it's not possible in that moment. You, you know, may have an urge or an impulse to kind of nod or say, oh, okay. But one of the things I talk about in the book is that it can seep our power to do that, to, to give into that impulse, to nod, to say essentially, I agree. Or I'll take it or it's okay with me, you know, through our body or maybe a smile or a nod.

And so one of the things I talk about is how empowering and a little awkward it can feel at first to be quiet in particular pockets of a conversation and a little more neutral in terms of your face, a little more of that poker face.

But it's a wonderful thing because rather than agreeing to something you might regret later, you know, or, or nodding, like in somehow consent that, okay, I'll take it - the world's crummiest raise on the planet. You're using a little more neutrality. You're leaving a little more of a pocket of space, both for you to think about your next move, you know what you might wanna say or do next.

So you're collecting your thoughts, but you're also in a very safe place to be in a conversation. You're not rushing to say yes, okay. Or maybe saying something that might come out like a ramble and be inarticulate, right? You're, you're really being thoughtful. And so this can feel so uncomfortable and awkward. It can feel like it's going on forever, but sometimes five to seven seconds of quiet is all it takes after you ask for something and then after you hear their response. And you look like you're taking it in like you're deliberating, you know, like you're thoughtful, and those are not bad things. So it can be a huge confidence boost to use that "Less is more" approach. Quiet instead of filling the air.

Megan: Yeah, I can think of many times in my working life where that would've been more helpful than the agreeing just to get it over with and be done or whatever. Oh, Selena, this has been really lovely. Is there anything else you want to leave our listeners with before we let them know how they can find you?

Selena: Yes. I just wanna say that this confidence thing matters and, and it really can power your best contributions, your willingness to break out on your own, you know, to speak up for somebody else, to nurture somebody else's sense of confidence, and it can be cultivated and developed. So I just wanna really remind people, no matter what your starting point is today, you can work on this and see results.

But it does take experimentation. It does take trying some of these things on doing things a little bit differently. Maybe being the first to go up to somebody and finding out you can not only survive it, but you like the way it makes you feel.

Megan: Yeah. I love that you take it out of the realm of just cognition. I feel like sometimes I think that confidence is just something some people have and are born with and others don't. But you're right. It's totally something that we build and can nurture and cultivate, and. Yeah, I really appreciate your more sort of grounded, holistic approach to this topic. So thank you.

Where can people find you, and this book? I'll put all the links in the show notes, but yeah, where can people follow along?

Selena: Yeah, I'm so excited to share Quick Confidence with you all. It's available anywhere that books are sold, and you can visit quickconfidence.com to find it at your favorite retailer. And there's even a book club kit on that website, so you can have a chat with your book club, with your buddies and process this together.

Megan: And I'll also add that you create a lot of really quick, helpful videos where people can just get some instant advice. And is that, Primarily on TikTok or Instagram as well?

Selena: Yeah, it's both. Selena Rezvani is my handle on both of those, and I create content around leadership and confidence every day. So say hi on those platforms and let me know what questions or what videos you might like to see.

Megan: Yeah, and I'll put those in the show notes for everyone. So thank you so much, Selena. This has been really enjoyable for me.

Selena: Thank you, Megan, and thanks for all the great dialogue you're putting out there for us to think about and grow with.

Megan: Okay, my friend. I hope that you loved that conversation and I encourage you to check out Selena's new book, Quick Confidence to go deeper and to bring these ideas even further into your life and your work.

A reminder that the summer Solstice retreat is next week, June 21st, the actual day, the actual longest day of the year. I'm really excited and registration is open a few more days until Friday, June 16th. I will be back with you next week. Take such good care and I'll see you on.

Show Notes:

About Selena:
Selena Rezvani's dual mission is to help women and underrepresented groups carve out paths to leadership and to help employers make bold bets on diverse talent. Through her training and speaking programs, Selena addresses thousands of professionals each year, covering topics related to leadership presence and self-advocacy, how to be an ally, and the future of work. Selena's the author of three leadership books, including the brand new book Quick Confidence, all about how to push past fear and make a bigger impact in your work life.

To connect with Selena:
www.selenarezvani.com
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@selenarezvani
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SelenaRezvaniOfficial
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/selenarezvani/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/selenarezvani
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/nextgenwomen
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/selenarezvani/

To learn more about the Summer Solstice Retreat on June 21st, click here: https://awildnewwork.com/summer-retreat

Note: I learned after recording that the poem I quoted by Hafez is inaccurately attributed. The author, Daniel Ladinsky, claimed that he translated this into English, but scholars disagree, and it’s disrespectful to Hafez’s true work. For more on this, visit: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/6/14/fake-hafez-how-a-supreme-persian-poet-of-love-was-erased

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