Creating Pockets of Care, with Toi Smith
How can we make the tiny area of life that we inhabit more caring, less transactional, and free from extraction? In this conversation with Toi Smith, we discuss strategies for embodying more beauty and less exploitation, whether it’s in our parenting, work, relationships to one another, or our relationships to the wider world.
About Toi:
Toi Smith is a Growth + Impact Strategist and her work centers on doing life, business, and motherhood differently. Toi works with people whose work is countercultural, liberatory, and revolutionary in nature...or people who desire and are committed to moving their work or lives in that direction.
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Megan Leatherman: Welcome to A Wild New Work, a podcast about how to divest from capitalism and the norms of modern work, and step into the soulful calling of these times we live in, which includes the call to rekindle our relationship with the Earth. I'm Megan Leatherman, a mother to two small kids, writer, amateur ecologist, and vocational guide.
I live in the Pacific Northwest and I'm your host today.
Hi friend, welcome. I'm so glad that you're here. So honored to be spending this time with you and I hope that you're taking good care, whether you're here in the spring season with me in Northern Hemisphere or tuning in at some other place or time. The sun is in the sign of Taurus now. We're in the mid spring period.
We've crossed the threshold through the spring equinox in late March, and we're really in the heart of this season now. Hopefully in your landscape, your neck of the woods, if you will, you're seeing things blooming. You're starting to see more color. You might see more animal activity. Perhaps the days are feeling longer to you.
And the topic of needs is really front and center. Everything that you see growing around you has needs. It can only grow by meeting its needs. And it's a time when we start to really ask, like, how are we going to make this work? How do we go from the seed to the sprout? to the flower, to the fruit. How can I support this young plant, perhaps, who's starting to kind of teeter over through the weight of its leaves or flowers?
Or what do I need to do in order to, you know, support my strawberry plants growing? How is this going to, how are these fruits going to become real? Do I have what I need in order to come into them and enjoy them and take part in the real bounty of this season? You know, Taurus is a fixed earth sign. So fixed meaning it's in the middle of a season. It's very sort of stable. We're in the heart of a time and it's an earth sign. So you also have that sort of added layer of stability. The earth is steady most times, you know, it holds us. It supports so much our bodies, our buildings, our cars, our infrastructure, our trees, all of the things that we love.
It really is home base. And so we can learn in this time that in order for things to really grow and bloom and for this next season of growth to occur, we need roots. We need to be established inside of the soil. We need our roots to be sturdy enough to support our trunks or our stalks growing.
We need sturdy cores so that we can hold, you know, the leaves that unfurl and absorb the sunlight. And we need to be sturdy enough and strong enough that we can produce a flower or not. topple over if a pollinator comes in and really, you know, gets at that nectar. So there's this need for stability and rootedness and groundedness.
And sometimes that can become really heavy and stodgy and suffocating. And, you know, many of us have learned inside of capitalism that to be stable means to be responsible. And it means to not ever make any changes, or it means to put all of your eggs into the basket of a regular full time W 2 job, or it means not taking any risks, or being available to everyone else to meet their needs.
And I hope that as you observe this mid spring period, that you start to question or interrogate your conceptions of what stability really means, because the earth is incredibly stable when given The space and freedom from pollution that it needs. Of course, changes occur, but the rapid destabilization that we're seeing in the climate right now is not natural, so to speak.
It's, you know, because of the destabilization of the Earth's resources and the incredible amounts of CO2 that are being put into the environment. But left to her own devices, the Earth is incredibly stable. Most of us don't live in places where there's constant earthquakes or, you know, lots of quick sand. Like, the ground beneath your feet is something that you can rely on, and it creates and gives life to so much beauty.
So, how can the Earth be so stable if she's constantly changing and going through seasons? The truth is that she is stable because she moves through those seasons, and we would be really helped to remember that instead of getting lost in this capitalist conception of stability that says it, it's all about just working all the time and saving as much money as you possibly can.
And so I hope that that, the notion of stability gets a little disrupted in you if it needs to, and if you want it to be, you know, I know that a lot of people right now, myself included, are feeling the effects of inflation, of economic tightness or constraint about perhaps job insecurity or layoffs, our needs and the way that we meet them right now can feel very complicated.
And I just want to acknowledge that at the outset. And we're in this time seasonally where there is also so much beauty and color and sunlight and warmth right now. It's all growing. And so how can we hold all of those things at once holding the constriction we might feel economically and in relation to our finances or our prospects. And also not forgetting to appreciate and put ourselves out into the color and the good smells and the beauty and the pollination that's happening outside right around us.
I knew that I wanted to talk to Toi Smith this season of the podcast because I really appreciate her very grounded approach to living inside of capitalism.
You know, the way that she talks about it and what I see her doing shows that it's not just theoretical in her world. It's very real. And she has taken a lot of anti capitalist ideas from seed to fruition. And I was really delighted that she said yes to my invitation to come onto the show this season.
Toi Smith is a growth and impact strategist, and her work centers on doing life, business, and motherhood differently. Toi works with people whose work is counter cultural, liberatory, and revolutionary in nature, or people who desire and are committed to moving their work or lives in that direction. In this conversation, we talked about her personal journey with capitalism, we talked about parenting inside of capitalism, and raising kids who may not necessarily want to be assembly line workers. We talked about her organization, Loving Black Single Mothers, and how each of us can create our own little island of relief from extraction and transactionality, how we can be empowered to sort of create an anti capitalist ecosystem right where we are.
So I think you're going to really love this conversation with Toi.
I have three quick announcements before we dive in. The first is that I'm teaching my class, Eating Capitalism, starting on May 1st. This is a class on the origins of capitalism and how it emerged out of feudalism in the Middle Ages and the very intentional creation of it, that it was not a natural occurrence, that it was not inevitable, and it does not have to stay this way. We'll be studying the book by Silvia Federici titled Caliban and the Witch: Women, the Body and Primitive Accumulation. And we're going to be meeting over five weeks, five Wednesdays in May over Zoom and it's $50 and if that is too much right now there's discount codes if you need it and I would love to have you.
This is an excellent... not excellent because of me, but because of the book that we'll be studying. A really nice primer on the origins of capitalism, and we're not going to just be studying it from a passive place, but we're really going to be eating it, digesting it, metabolizing it, letting it into ourselves, and turning it into something else in the same way that fungal networks can detoxify soil that's been polluted, or landscapes that have been polluted. You know, toxic waste sites. We also can become these sites of purification by understanding and eating the truth about where this system comes from. So I hope you'll consider joining us. You can register at a wild new work. com.
I also want to let you know that if you are finding it difficult right now to navigate capitalism, and you have this sense that you're on the precipice of a meaningful change in your working life, and you want to do so in a way that honors your own natural cycles and the wisdom of the earth, that I do guide people through a one on one process for doing that over six to twelve months, and that work is a complete joy to me, and if you find that you need that level of support, you can also learn about that at awildnewwork. com.
For those of you in the Portland, Oregon area, I want to remind you that I'm in this beautiful process with my friends, Megan Hayne and Heather Dorfman, to offer a land based rite of passage program for adults. Our next gathering is Saturday, May 18th. It's called Rise Up Rooted, and in this session in particular, we will be uncovering some of your talents and where they might want to take you in your life and work right now and I'd love to see you there. You can learn about that at awhilenewwork. com slash rise dash up dash rooted and I'll put the links for all of this in the show notes as well.
Okay, let's shift to our opening invocation. So wherever you are, you can settle into your seat or your body or the movements wherever you are and settling in for a moment.
You might want to take a deep breath. You might want to breathe into your belly if you haven't done that yet today. And I want to just invite you to notice who is around you right now. Are there other living beings in your immediate environment or vicinity? Just giving them a bit of your attention at this moment.
May each of us be blessed and emboldened to do the work we're meant to do on this planet. May our work honor our ancestors, known and unknown. And may it be in harmony with all creatures that we share this earth with. I express gratitude for all of the technologies and gifts that have made this possible, and I'm grateful to the Multnomah, Cowlitz, Bands of Chinook, and Clackamas tribes, among many others, who are the original stewards of the land that I'm on.
All right, well, Toi, thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited for this conversation.
Toi Smith: Thank you for having me. I'm excited as well. I always love talking about all things, capitalism.
Megan Leatherman: Well, I'd love to start by hearing a little bit about your personal journey with capitalism and how that's impacted your choices around work or your professional life and sort of how you came to do the work that you do today.
Toi Smith: I always think about that, like, what's your version do I give like the long winding version or very direct. Um, and what's interesting is a few weeks ago. I had a friend like a newer friend asked me, like, what radicalized you? Like, how did you become the Toi quote unquote, we see on Instagram or doing the work that you're doing similar to this question and I would I've historically said, like, it’s been my motherhood, like being a black single mother has been the thing that has radicalized me the most and has informed my politics and asked me to dig deeper into these systems of oppression. But when I was reflecting on when he asked me about it, I was really Thinking about my whole life kind of put me into this position.
I come from a black single mother. I was raised in an intergenerational home. My mom, um, there was a lot of drug use and domestic violence and all the things that make a perfect storm for a lot of trauma. But over the years, as I've been kind of alchemizing that part of my work, my healing work has been able to been looking at these systems and being like, how did they impact my family's choices, my mother's choices, um, how they parented, how they loved, how they were able to provide.
And all of those things. And so I would say at the core, it's being a black woman raised by a black single mother in the U. S. with the historical context that the U. S. has, has been the thing that has asked me to be in deep inquiry around these systems. Now, to this journey now of like where I'm on Instagram, where this is my work. About eight years ago, I had gotten laid off for the second time in a row. And I was kind of dabbling my feet into like working for myself. And I had a deep desire to like own more of my time. Cause it was really difficult as a single mom, like. Going into the corporate space, still having to parent and all of those things.
And so I got laid off for the second time in a row and I was like, Oh, I can't go back to work. And that was a really interesting experience because the last actual job I had, I had this experience and I wrote about it, um, a long time ago where I had a manager require me to come in, even though I had gotten into a car accident and it was like the holidays I had, there was no one in the office, um, and I was scheduled to be in, but I got in a really bad car accident and I had, you know, let her know that I couldn't make it.
And she was like, well, do you think you could try? And it was like, huh? You know, and like, knowing what I know now about capitalism, like that's a normal answer for a manager to say, um, but anyway, so I, I didn't want to go back to work. And so I had a friend who was a coach at the time, a life coach, um, she lives in California and she kind of just gave me some work to do for her while I was like laid off getting unemployment.
And I was like, Oh, this is easy. And that was like my foray of like, I was stepping my foot into, like, working for myself, and while I was doing that, I was heavy into reading. I had a lot of time. I've always been a deep reader, um, but I was reading a lot more around capitalism and patriarchy and all the things, and so that kind of started The journey and I would say really within the last five years, my work really took a foothold when I decided that I wanted to learn more about these systems.
So I would say, like, that's kind of the meandering journey.
Megan Leatherman: Yeah, thank you for bringing in the long story and right now, it's really helpful. Yeah, thank you. thinking about your manager's response and just the sort of, it's like a little clue into the violence of capitalism and just how wild and what we're forced into because of it.
So yeah, thank you for bringing all of that context into our conversation here. What does it mean to you now Knowing what you know and alchemizing, like you said, what you are alchemizing, what does it mean to you to be anti capitalist, like maybe even theoretically, but also in your lived life or in the work that you do?
What is that? And if that term doesn't resonate, that's totally fine. We can find another one. But what does that mean to you?
Toi Smith: I get that question a lot. And I think it's because when people hear anti capitalist, like they hear like anti money, they hear anti live well, they have, they hear anti house, they hear anti car, they hear like, anti all the things you need to live. And so like, it's an affront to a lot of people, like you're anti capitalist because they're just without knowing really the insidious nature of capitalism, we uphold capitalism, right? So for me, I say I'm anti capitalist. I definitely stand like 10 toes down on that.
For me, that means I'm anti exploitation. I'm anti extraction. I'm anti like getting over on people. Um, and I say for people who don't know if they're anti capitalist, if you're anti those things, if you're anti exploitation, if you're anti extraction from yourself, from your beloveds, from the land, from your relationships, you're anti capitalist too.
Because capitalism is inherently a system of based on exploitation, extraction, violence, and all these things. If you're anti that, then you're anti against the system. So I would say that's how I'm defining it and how that shows up in my world is I have to be deeply conscious and how I am all the things, how I am parenting, right?
Like capitalism shows up in our parenting and that's one of my biggest roles. So how I'm mothering my sons, making sure I'm not. Exploiting them, how I, how I show up in my relationship with clients and the work that I do, how I market the work that I do, how I'm in intimate relationships, intimate partnerships, how I treat the world that I'm just in when I step my feet out of my house, um, it shows up everywhere.
And instead of being like, I would say it's more about being in relationship with all of these ways. All of these roles, seeing myself as interdependent. Like I need, you know, I need the air. I need the grass. I need the trees. I need all the things. I need these relationships that I have. Capitalism teaches us to see like everything as something we can take from.
Not that we're in relationship with it, not that we need it, but that we can take And appropriate and exploit and steal from. And so part of my shift over the years of my work has to really been to humble myself and be like, I don't exist without certain things, right? I don't exist without you. I don't exist without you.
I don't exist without like all whoever's listening. Like we're so hella interdependent. And for me, it's also been like really nature based to really look at like Going outside like I don't exist without any of this like we do not exist and capitalism wants us to erase that or or to like not see it.
And so I think that's part of, you know, my defining of capitalism is really simple because I want people to be able to connect with it and then go deeper from there. And then how I practice it is really just showing up and showing up in relationship.
Megan Leatherman: Yeah. I love the simplicity and the power of that.
And yeah, all of that makes complete sense and is where... that's sort of how it started unraveling for me, too, was just feeling myself as a part of nature. And then you can see the contrast between how nature is together and how we are supposed to relate. I mean, and the way nature, you know, works, quote unquote, is so different to how, you know, machinery or industrialism works.
Um, so yeah, thank you for bringing that piece in. One of the things that I struggle with, and I bet you have thought about a lot, is Just, I know we can't predict the future at all, but I would love to hear any thoughts you have about where we could go after capitalism, or what if this started to unravel more?
Do you have any thoughts about what else might be possible, knowing that we can't rewind, you know, back before it? But like, where could we go now? Or what else could be possible, sort of, in, with where we are, and the way things have been?
Toi Smith: Yeah, you know, I facilitate a lot of groups and we talk about capitalism a lot in the spaces that I hold, and part of people's grief is feeling like this is it, like, we're so interwoven into it, there's just too much to topple for us to even come out of it, and I have to remind people all the time that as long as capitalism has existed, because we can look back and trace capitalism, capitalism isn't a thing that just You know, appeared that's always been here.
It's been like the way that we've been. But we can mark it. We can look back and see the shifts and the changes. As long as it's been in existence, there has been struggle against it, right? And the reason it hasn't cannibalized as much as it could have possibly is because people have been fighting against it constantly right, from working hours, right? So how we got to a 40 hour work week to how we get certain protections around minimum wage and all the things are not the best. But if capitalism and those who uphold it could have their way. We would all be enslaved into this mode of just existing for that.
And so I think that's one thing I want people to connect to is like, do you understand some of the history of the struggle? Because if you can see that right and see how working class people have been constantly fighting about it around it, how black people have been fighting against it, how mothers have been fighting against it, that can give us some like.
It can embolden us to be like, okay, we can continue on. The next thing I'll say is that, um, I think a lot of times, because we're all so exhausted from how we're forced to exist in this and that, and then we have differing, uh, degrees of exhaustion, right? Based on where you exist inside the systems. But, overarchingly, we're exhausted.
So there's a lot of grief with that. Like, I don't know, like, I just want it to all change. I just want it to all be done. What's the next utopia? What's the next thing? And what I have to constantly say is that it's not going to be found and we're not going to trade one thing for another. We're not going to be like in capitalism and now, it's this utopia and it's going to be like 2025 and it's done. And then we 2026 and we enter into this new world. Like, I want people to be realistic because that's not happening. It's not even going to be 2040. Like, that's not the thing, but what's going to happen. And what we constantly see happening are these little pockets Of embodiment and change and struggle and like, find people finding their crevices, or I'd like to say they're 500 square feet of doing things differently.
Right? So we're going to see like. Maybe more co ops where people are sharing resources and sharing the profit and pumping it back into the workers. We're going to see maybe more people with communal living and living off the land and doing it together instead of that being like something we're shamed for like, oh, you live in an intergenerational home.
We're going to see it as like part of, oh, you're doing the right thing. We're going to see a different mindset towards ownership, right. And private property and like, who gets to have what and how we share things. These are going to happen in like little pockets and we see them now. That's why I can exist and do the work I can now. Eight years ago? No, like, even though people were questioning, I could not offer a study course for 12 weeks on capitalism and people want to join. People would have looked at me like, yeah, no. Now people are like, Oh, some things don't feel right. And so more people are looking at the broader picture of like all the fucked up shit.
But also we're looking at our day to day and being like, Ooh, this don't feel good. My body doesn't feel good. My mom's body didn't feel good. My grandmother's body didn't feel good. My great grandmother's body didn't feel good. When does it stop? Are my kid's body is not going to feel good. And so people are starting to find their 500 square feet.
And so I think that's the message I have for people is there isn't going to be one big solution, capital S. There's going to be a bunch of little solutions that look different based on your location based on your connections based on your resources based on your like embodiment all of these things, right?
So, someone doing life in, like, upstate New York may look different than someone in Arizona, but a collective. You know, a collective movement of we don't want to uphold capitalism. What are the ways that we can work differently, love differently, relate differently, exist differently, what are our little crevices to kind of bring it down?
So I think of it as, like, a thousand little chips at this system that will take a long time for us to get out of. And while we're doing that, we will see that there is, when we see it now, there will be two steps forward and maybe three steps back because the system still wants to exist. We have to know that's coming. So I don't know if that answered it It's an answer non answer because I think people want one solution.
I don't have it.
Megan Leatherman: Yeah, I think, no, that's the truth. I think, I mean, it's so refreshing to just remember that we have this tiny little space and we do have some agency to make it different than what we're sort of experiencing outside of it. And yeah, I don't know. I haven't found any other compelling way to be in the world right now than just being in my little space as best I can. And I think, I think you're right that that will grow, I hope, and it's going to keep changing. And I think we have a shared respect for Silvia Federici. And so, yeah, I find so much inspiration in learning about the origins of capitalism and the people who resisted so boldly, so much more Courageously that I ever have, you know, going to the gallows instead of working for a wage or risking death, you know, and so, yeah, I think there's so much inspiration.
If we can look around to the people who have resisted it, you know, from. It's advent in the middle ages, uh, till now. And so, yeah, thank you for bringing that in too.
Toi Smith: Yeah, of course. And I think I, I also want to name that for people that can feel like heavy, like there's not a solution, like, you know, like, but that also frees you up so much to not take on someone else's version of like, That's what capitalism does.
It forces upon us someone else's vision, someone else's imagination. And so now, like I've said, we're in a battle of imagination. Like, what can you imagine differently? How can you move differently in just your world? And just imagine more of us instead of less, worrying about or concerned with our 500 square feet that changes things that makes moves, right?
It's not a one broad stroke. It's just like if I think about it in art, it's like these just distinctive, different look like colors and like you pull back and you look at that and it's gorgeous, right? Like, and so I think that's It'll work for everyone and to also get out of like just the independence of it.
Like I have to do this alone. I don't do any of this stuff alone and the only way that I'm so studied and well versed and can have these conversations is because I have these conversations on a daily basis with people I love. These are coffee table talks. These are three hour, like late night conversations.
These are like legitimate, like dating relationships when I'm like an intimate partnership we're talking about this stuff. So it's not just something like I've been intellectualizing like, Oh, like it's up here. It like lives in my whole body and I think that's part of it too is like, how do we pull it out of like I just read it out of a book and move it into it becomes part of my world.
Megan Leatherman: Yeah, that's one of the things I've appreciate appreciated about you since I found your work was that you make it very of the, like in the world, like, like there are things you can see and touch that you've done. And maybe if you're open to it, I would love to talk about parenting specifically for a minute.
I have two kids, seven and four, and I've just started talking to my daughter about capitalism and what it is and, and before that, even, you know, Noticing when I say, like, I have to go to work or just noticing the way that I talk about work and what I do and I'm curious how if slash how you talk to your sons about capitalism and how you sort of honor their talents and gifts and what makes them so lovely and how you sort of balance wanting them to find a place to contribute their gifts in the world while also holding the reality that there's, you know, capitalist ambitions and pressures and money questions and anything you could share about your experience with this as a parent would be great.
Toi Smith: Oof. I'm in an interesting season in my like, parenthood, motherhood journey.
I have four children. They're all boys. Um, my oldest is 19. I have twins that are 15 and my youngest is 12. And so, you know, they grew up with me as a mom. So they're radicalized in certain kind of ways and know certain histories and have heard me for the breadth of their life, like talking about these things to them, with them, and like in exploration.
As they have been maturing and turning into like young men going out into the world, I find myself in a different season of all their questioning and like some of their like grief, and I'm holding the grief too. So, for example, my 19 year old I remember when he first got, you know, was starting to work at like 17 and was like really baffled at how he was like, this is what y'all do every day.
Like y'all go to work. Like he was working in a movie theaters, like people work here eight hours for 40 hours a week. And like, you could see in his face like this, like grief of like, this is what happens like after like, this is it. And so what I've done is to like honor that for them. I'm like, yes. That is the world and we can slowly change it and also to give them permission to, to not uphold work in school and grades as a measure of their character.
So I give my son's wellness days, the ones that are in school, so they can tell me throughout the month, like, I don't wanna go to school today. Cool. You get one wellness day, use it how you want to use it. I don't pressure them on the like grade front. I want them to have decent grades because they understand that they have to get a job, but they also see me working for myself.
So they have questions around like, what does that look like? What do I need to do? So I try to be the balance of. I say this that the as parents, our role is to uphold the status quo and the function of the state. That's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to police our kids. We're supposed to make sure that they go to school, that we abide by the school policies and we know the school is a function of capitalism and the state as it's set up now, the educational system.
So our role as parents, as our kids get older, is to like whip them into shape, make sure they're at school all the time, that they're there for the bells, that they get good attendance and they understand the importance of this so that then they can be good workers. So my intersection there is to be like, you need to go to school.
You have to graduate. You need to pass you are going to be so many different people in your lifetime. This will not be the end all be all for you. I need you to understand what this season just means. You got to go to school. And so I give them the space to challenge me on school to be very critical of their of the way it's set up, right, of how they're forced to be taught. My my youngest is 12. And he is on the spectrum. He has ADHD and he forever has been someone like, this don't make no sense. Like none of it makes sense. And then one day, maybe when he was in fourth grade, we were driving to school. He was like, I think I understand why I have to go to school at eight and I get out later.
And I was like, why? He was like, so you could go to work. So like I, my schedule has to match your work schedule. And he didn't say cause of capitalism, but he understood like, this is trivial because like, I just have to go because you got to go somewhere. Right. And so we have a lot of conversations him and I around how he would dream up school being differently.
Like, he was like, I would make it like 4 hours. Why do I need to be there 8 hours? And why do I have to get up so early? Like, kids aren't like, We're not our best at that time. Like, why can't we go at 10 and be done at two and how come, you know, we can't have more fun. And so I allow them to challenge me and to challenge the structure and to poke holes.
And even how I'm parenting now, that it's hard because sometimes I'm like, just do what I say, please just do what I say. Um, but it also, I'm also forging the way for them to be critical thinkers and sovereign as much as they can be, and to not see like authority as something they have to cow down to all the time.
Yeah. So I think it's a lot of little things, but I think it's not seeing my kids as like, I own them or the state owns them or the schools own them that returning to them or not even returning, holding for them that they are their own people. And we exist here, but there's also, again, crevices that they can move through that give them more sovereignty.
And so I'm helping them in any ways that I can to find those crevices.
Megan Leatherman: That's awesome. Thank you so much. That gives me some new things to chew on too, for my own kids. Yeah. I'm also noticing how much myself and probably people listening wish that we had received that from our parents, just permission to be like, this is weird.
What is this? Like, but even we weren't even allowed to like name like your son did that. Oh, I just have to do this because you I mean. Yeah. Kids aren't dumb. They get, they see that this, a lot of this is absurd. So yeah, I really admire how much space you make for your kids to question and challenge, and you can be like a sturdy presence that they can push up against.
Um, so thank you so much. Maybe pulling on the theme of motherhood, we could talk about your work with Loving Black Single Mothers, um, which seems like one of those really special little ecosystems where things are different, and I'm curious about the genesis of that, how that idea started, and then how you actually grew it into this tangible thing that's really changing, like, really helping people.
So could you tell us a little bit about the genesis and what that work is now?
Toi Smith: Loving Black Single Mothers is in its second year of like official ness, right? But it's been something that I have, that has been on my soul for at least the last Twelve years since my youngest son was born. Um, it's been something in practice for maybe the last five years that I've been experimenting with in different ways before I even was like, like, well studied or understood capitalism more in these systems and redistribution and like giving back. I always felt like, even though I didn't have a lot, I had a lot, like, I could give back in some ways. Um, and so, like, years ago, I used to have a blog where I. wrote about like Motherhood and learning from being, um, you know, a single parent and things like that.
And I started this, this, this little thing. It was like, I'm going to find one woman, one black single mother and give her a hundred dollars a month. I don't have a lot. And at that time it was like, I found one cause there was a reader of my blog, like someone applied and I would mail a check to her, we didn't have the apps or anything like that.
So I was like, I'm gonna mail a check to you. And that was like my little way. And then like, fast forward a few years from that, I was like trying to rally my friends around this idea of like, we could put our money together and give it to someone and, you know, people think I'm crazy for that idea because it's you know, we're all, most of us are like, I don't got it. I don't got it to give, like someone should give it to me. And I've always been like, well, I mean, what is a hundred dollars really? So that was like part of that work. And then, you know, about five years ago, as my following started to grow and things like that, I was like, well, what can I do here?
How do I use this? Beyond vanity beyond beyond like I have followers and I can sell a course or a program. How do I like pay it forward. And that was the seed of our ecosystem holiday love where we have, um, We get financial partners to give to moms through the holiday season, a total of $500 a month, no strings attached for four months.
And so we match financial partner, someone who has between 125 and 500 to give to a mom and they get this money for four months through the holiday season. So I did that, you know, a few years ago, maybe like five years ago and like within 24 hours we had 25 moms that we could support just by me putting it out on my email list and on instagram.
And I was like, oh, you know, the tides are kind of turning where maybe before people wouldn't been turned on to this, but there are like cracks in the system that more people are seeing and wanting to do their part. And so that was The start of that. And so now we're a full fledged organization where our whole work is to uplift, uphold, uphold, excuse me, black single mothers, um, and we do that through material change, meaning like, Giving them money because we trust them to know what they need for their families, for their children, for themselves, uh, because a lot of times black single mothers have had the experience of being told that we don't make good decisions that we're not good, good decision makers that, you know, we're in precarity because of choices that we've made, and so we have to be the person who is smart for everyone, you know, like, even though we've been harmed and, you know, violent. And, uh, different kinds of ways. My work is to say to return to moms, to black single mothers, so much like love through this work and saying, you deserve, right? You deserve this money.
You deserve to know that people are giving you this money because that opens up something for folks to be like, Oh, like there are actual people behind this who give to me. And so that has been like my praxis, right? Like beyond me, just learning about capitalism, patriarchy, misogyny, all the things. Beyond like my studying of it and questioning it for myself, it's like, what do I do with it in praxis?
How do I like move it beyond me and move it onto someone else? And because my version of black single motherhood was, it has been very painful and very, um, a lot, I've carried a lot of grief with it. This has been healing for me to be able to be in a space. You know, of 41, 41 year old Toi with, you know, almost all teenagers now in a better space than I was being able to say, okay, I can return this.
I can use my knowledge, my connections, my network in support of something. And so loving black single mothers is a catalyst of all that.
Megan Leatherman: Thank you so much. I know you said it started with the holiday season specifically. I've also seen you direct funds for summer camps and I'm curious what is on the sort of horizon for you and this organization.
What do you see in the next year or two maybe?
Toi Smith: Yeah. So right now I'll first say that I don't, I don't have a desire to make loving black single mothers a big organization. What I know inside of capitalism is that when we start to scale things out, we lose so much value in connection to the values of the work that we're doing to the people that we're in service of.
And we see, we can, we can see this. And so our desire as an organization is to say small and true to our mission and our values. Um, so you won't see me in five years, like we're supporting 300 moms and that won't be us. We will still be very small. So we right now have three ecosystems and a like communal space for moms.
We have summer camp joy, as you name that gives moms resources for summer because As we know, when school's out, parents still got to work and this is born from my experience of what do I do with the kids? Like I still have to go to work. I can't afford a summer camp. I can't afford these certain things.
And so when I started to be able to, you know, put my kids in summer camp or grandparents were helping a little bit more, it alleviated so much stress. And so that's where that was born from of like, we're just going to give moms $2500. Put your kid in summer camp, right? You don't have to think about it.
And then the ecosystem that's our like biggest one that starting in June is forever flourishing. And that gives a cohort of moms $2500 a month. So a $30, 000 guaranteed income stipend along with $5000 in a well wellness stipend and access to a life coach, you know, a financial advisor. A bunch of other things while they're with us for a year.
And that's our biggest, most expensive endeavor. But it's really to, again, say that we trust black single mothers to say that there is more than enough to go around. Um, and to say that, In a year's time, we want to dream with you and we want you to feel supported and we want you to feel rooted and we want you to know that like, we're not just going to give you 500.
We're giving you 2, 500 a month. What can, what do you want to do with that? And so that has been a long time in the making and we're finally here in 2024. So we begin in a couple months. So that's kind of where we're at.
Megan Leatherman: Wonderful. Thank you. I love that you're intending to stay small. And I also love that these are such hearty ideas that people could work with them in their own little sphere and recreate it.
It's just such a wonderful way.... like an idea and model, and it's so simple to just redistribute in like, intentional and thoughtful ways that you don't have to get huge. You can just empower people to sort of replicate in ways. Does that feel fair?
Toi Smith: That feels very fair. I was speaking to our director of operations, who's a really good friend of mine, Renee.
And, you know, excuse me, when we were talking about, like, we're going to be small, we were like, well, we want to create models for people to do. You can do a holiday love with your community. You could, you could do it. Like, you know, we, I didn't ask for permission. I think a lot of time people are waiting for permission to do these things.
I didn't wait for permission. I've tried it different ways, different times. And we're just in a season where it makes sense where a lot of people are connected to this kind of possibility. But I think everything we're doing has been done in certain kind of ways. We're just using what's available to us now, right?
Technology, our social media, um, the awareness, the, the willingness and, and their models, right? Like, It also takes a deep willingness to have uncomfortable conversations and to ask people to get uncomfortable. I think that's one of my skill sets is to have these kind of conversations with people and bring them on a journey and to see like where they're placed in the history and in the possibility and how they can show up. I think that's been the that's part of the hardest thing for people is to have the conversations to ask people to come along on the journey, even though we don't know it, what it is, but definitely 100 percent all of these things that we're doing are models and they're placed in a lot of, um, you know, wonderful historic historical context and a lot of things that are happening now that work that are people work that people are doing.
Megan Leatherman: And do you feel like the way That this is setting set up, you know, the first thing I've sort of thought of when I heard about this idea, like, coming to the fore was universal basic income. But how does that relate to what you feel like you're doing through loving single black mothers? Is it a form of UBI? Is it different?
Toi Smith: It's different in that... so there's UBI universal basic income and there's guaranteed income and universal universal basic income is just that like everyone in society will get 500 no matter what, you know, their household size or whatever.
It's just universal across the board. So you could be a millionaire. We're still going to give you some sort of money. Um, and we saw this kind of in the pandemic with the, like the checks that went out and there was a call at that time for people to like redistribute, redistribute their stimulus checks.
Like if you didn't need that money, what are you going to do with it? You don't need an extra 1, 500. So how do you give it? So there's that vein we exist in the context of guaranteed. Income basically, and we call it guaranteed thriving income because we're giving them we're giving mothers the amount of 30, 000 that's to help them thrive, not to just survive.
Like, we're hoping to counteract some of the harm in the systems that the moms experience and so guaranteed income is that it's based on your family size. It's based on your needs. It's based on your social economic location. It like takes into consideration like where you're placed and how much you need.
And so that's why our amount is so high. 2500 is specific, right? At first, we wanted to do 5000 and we might we might get to 5000 a month, but 2, 500 allows for a lot of dreaming and scheming. Like, it honestly allows for moms to pay off debt and maybe take a vacation, right? And we're like, you can do whatever you want with the money.
And what Black single mothers, especially who live on the margins, are used to is if they're getting child support, if they're getting any help from the state in terms of like, you know, food assistance or um, you know, monetary assistance is being told what they can do with money, or you can't earn a certain amount of money or you're going to be taking off the things and we're like, take care of you too.
You're part of this equation. Your kids are too. So guarantee d income and our version of it sits in the, the, in the pocket of like true thriving instead of just like getting someone. through things.
Megan Leatherman: That's helpful. Thank you. Yeah, I hadn't really thought through that distinction, but that makes a lot of sense.
Where are some of your edges right now, I guess? What are you sort of stretching into this year and in the work that you're doing? What are some of the places that you feel like you're growing or stretching as we step into the spring and summer?
Toi Smith: I always feel like there's a lot of stretching.
I would say parenting for sure. In this season with like older children, like, I'm parenting, but I'm not right. I have so much more freedom than I've had in the last 19 years as I'm, you know, my kids are exploring their social networks and they're wanting to be, you know, without mom and all those things.
So I'm in this exploration of like, what does that look like for me? I dreamed of this time, but we are here. So stretching through that. And then really thinking about who I want to be working with, you know, like who, who am I calling in? What kind of programming am I offering? And like, what does it mean for me?
Because I've been so used to being on the margins. To be as I say for the black single mothers to live well for me to live well, it's very easy for me to like alchemize things and give to others. And then it's like, it's very hard for me to be like, oh, I deserve that too. It takes a while for me to get there.
And so I've just been encouraged by you know, some of my friends who love me to like really look at how I receive and what I'm, how I'm placing myself. And so like, that's a, always going to be an edge I think for me. Yeah. I think those are the things right now that I'm constantly in relationship with.
Megan Leatherman: Thank you. Thanks for sharing that.
Toi Smith: Yeah.
Megan Leatherman: Is there anything that we haven't covered today that you wish more people knew or understood or embodied about capitalism and sort of this point in time and history?
Toi Smith: I think I would just really encourage, you know, your listeners to see themselves as possibility models.
And to see themselves as people who can spark change, and to, like, really challenge your imagination. Like, everything I do is because I believe it can be different. And I don't know if I've seen it differently, but I, I believe that this isn't it. That like, there's no way that this Is it. And part of my work on this world, not just for my kids, but like, or maybe for my great granddaughter is to do my part now to spark change.
And so, yeah, I just think deeply encouraging folks to a be in study in all the ways that you can, like, I'm in constant study of these systems of history of possibility because it's forever changing. Things are always changing. And I think if we don't stay in relationship with it, the status quo, the dominant machine will take us over, right?
Like if you just start to watch the news and start to just, you know, be in certain media places and have certain conversation, you start to think that like, this is all normal and that this is it. And when I stay and study with myself and with others, it keeps me like It keeps me just like aware of this isn't it.
And there's something wrong. Like, being able to name that there is something wrong with how we live, like naming that there's a problem, not being apathetic towards it, but being like, this is wrong. And then, like, if I take that stance. What does that mean? So, yeah, I would just, I would love for, and I've seen it, more people to just believe in themselves and believe that this isn't it, and question, question, question, like, keep questioning all the ways, like, go upstream all the ways you can, and like, get connected with beloveds and be in some form of community.
I'm not saying like, You know, it has to be all the people, but like, who are your two people that you're exploring these things with? Because what I also know to be true is change is not sustainable when it's just in isolation. Like, we need people if we are going against, like, this juggernaut of a system.
Like, you need, The people to laugh with, to like talk shit with, to like question with you need all the people with you. So who are your people, you know, and thinking about ways that you can be connected.
Megan Leatherman: Thank you, love. You brought it all the way back to connection and relationship where we started, so that's perfect.
Thank you so much. Where can people find you and learn with you and maybe join up in your study? Yeah, where can people find you?
Toi Smith: Yeah. So Instagram, of course, it's at Toi Marie, where my website is Toi Marie. com. I encourage everyone, if you're interested to get on my newsletter list, I also have an offering called the deepening, which is 52 weeks, so a year, of learning and unlearning each week in your inbox, you'll get a new like decolonial reading, um, to help you stay again, connected to this study. Um, so it's really like easy, it's just one reading a week, one essay, one article through the lens of black liberation, reproductive justice and black womanhood.
So there's that. And then of course loving Black single Mothers, which is loving black single mothers.com. And I would say those are the most important places.
Megan Leatherman: Okay. Great. I'll put all those in the show notes so people have them easily. Anything else you want to say before we sign off?
Toi Smith: No, just that I think I love these conversations and I love that we can have them.
And so thank you for asking and being willing and open.
Megan Leatherman: Yes, thank you so much. Okay, my friend. I hope you loved that conversation. Thank you for being here with us. I really want to encourage you to follow along with Toi. I've learned so much from her work in the world and the way that she perceives capitalism and breaks it down, and I hope that you check out her website or Instagram.
Thank you so much to those of you supporting the show financially, whether you've done so once or maybe twice. Monthly. It really means a lot to me and helps make this more sustainable. If you have benefited from the show and have the means to pitch in, whether it's a few dollars now or $5 a month, you can do that at buy me a coffee.com/megan leatherman and I'll put that link in the show notes for you too.
I'll be back with you in two weeks to start talking about some other strategies that are more than human kin. Utilize to meet their needs It's really important to me this season that we explore not only anti capitalist ways of meeting our needs but anti capitalist ways that are very much rooted in not human communities Because I think we really need to be learning from them right now So i'm excited to share that episode with you in a couple of weeks I hope you take such good care and i'll see you on the other side