Re-villaging, with Megan Hayne and Heather Dorfman
Many of us yearn for a way of living that is evoked by the term “village,” and it’s true that for millenia, humans met their needs inside of a communal setting such as this. In this episode with anticapitalist, nature-loving co-conspirators Heather Dorfman and Megan Hayne, we discuss what the term “village” means to us, what needs might be met in a village setting that aren’t met in our modern way of living, and accessible ways to re-village right where we are, with what we’ve got.
About Megan:
Megan Hayne (she/her), is a shepherd’s daughter, mother, body worker, and menstrual circle facilitator. She is also an authorized Kum Nye (Tibetan Yoga) instructor, Licensed Massage Therapist, and holds a Bachelor of Health Science Degree. Megan is presently studying ritual with Old School Nate. You can learn more about Megan’s work at moonschoolcircle.com or on Instagram @mooncyclemegan
About Heather:
Heather Dorfman, LMSW (she/her) is the founder of Rose and Cedar Forest Therapy. Heather guides groups and individuals in the practice of Forest Therapy; offers Grief Care; provides organizational consulting, training, and retreats; and is also an adjunct professor of social work. In all of these realms, Heather is co-creating a world of justice and liberation for all beings. You can learn more about Heather’s work at roseandcedarforesttherapy.com or on Instagram @roseandcedarforest
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Megan Leatherman:
Welcome to A Wild New Work, a podcast about how to divest from capitalism and the norms of modern work and step into the soulful calling of these times we live in, which includes the call to rekindle our relationship with the earth. I'm Megan Leatherman, a mother to two small kids, writer, amateur ecologist, and vocational guide.
I live in the Pacific Northwest, and I'm your host today. Hi friend and welcome. I'm so glad that you're here. Really honored to spend this time with you. I'm recording this in the early spring period. The sun is in the sign of Aries and we're still in this period of, you know, the early blooms are out, you've got tulips and daffodils, where I am, the birds are making nests, the squirrels are tending their nests, and so there's little signs of new life, but I wouldn't say we're fully into the spring season yet.
It's this really delicious time of anticipation and growing color and vitality. And this season of the show we are talking about needs. Our true original needs as people living on this earth and how we can meet them inside of capitalism and civilization and the cultures that we find ourselves in, all happening in the midst of climate chaos and change. And today I'm really excited to talk about this idea of re villaging or returning to some of the wisdom of village life and bringing it into our lives now. Because for our entire history as a species, our needs have been met in community. Our needs were met through relationships with other humans, but also with the land that we lived on, with the elements, with the seasons, and so we are social creatures.
There's no doubt about that. And, you know, the term village evokes a sort of later uh, At least in like the historical continuum, a later version of human society, right? It's not really this nomadic hunter gatherer way of living that we were using and being in. as humans for hundreds of thousands of years.
So there is this notion of settlement, which is a question mark for me, but it's such an accessible vision and a way into something that I think is richer than what we have in this modern context. And I'm really excited to unpack what village means today and talk to Megan and Heather about how it informs their choices and the needs that they have and what needs they see being met inside of a village setting and how we can start to give ourselves a felt sense of the village, even now in the, in the context that we're in.
So I hope you love this conversation and I encourage you today to just kind of check in with your own needs, like how are you doing in terms of your deeper needs for connection or sustenance or freedom? And just keep in mind that you do have really important needs that aren't always met through or by capitalism, that aren't always met through capitalism, through or by production or consumption, you know. Your need to experience awe or wonder or spaciousness or slowness. Those are all very real and important, and I know they might feel hard to access inside of this context, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep trying. And I hope today's episode gives you even more yumminess to chew on in terms of how to meet your needs right now.
Two quick announcements. Um, for those of you in the Pacific Northwest, Heather, Megan, and I are coming together to create a land based rite of passage program for adults. It's called Rise Up Rooted. It's a series of four gatherings, one of which is an overnight retreat. And our first one is Sunday, April 21st.
And you'll hear us talk a little bit more about this later, but I wanted to just let you know about that up front. If you're in the area, you can join us for one workshop or all four to create a real experience. robust rite of passage program for yourself, um, and if you have any questions, let me know.
For everyone, whether you're in the area or not, I do just want to remind you that if you need some individualized support, I do offer live tarot readings, and there are discount codes available if you're feeling the crunch. financially right now, but still need some support. And then I do work with people one on one through a more intensive six to 12 month process, um, for those going through a more meaningful change in their working life.
And then finally, if you feel like you want some more cognitive engagement. I'm teaching a class called Eating Capitalism over five weeks in May, and this is a study of Silvia Federici's book called Caliban and the Witch, studying the origins of capitalism in Europe in the medieval ages. And it's an amazing book, and I've loved teaching this class, and you're welcome to join us for that too.
Okay, I'm going to take us through our opening invocation before I lead you into this conversation. So wherever you are, just noticing your body and time and space. Remembering that this is your life right now. You're living your life. You're doing it. This is it. This is what it's like. What is it for you today? Can we be just a little bit more present with what's here?
May each of us be blessed and emboldened to do the work we're meant to do on this planet. May our work honor our ancestors, known and unknown, and may it be in harmony with all creatures that we share this earth with. I express gratitude for all of the technologies and gifts that have made this possible, and I'm grateful to the Multnomah, Cowlitz, Bands of Chinook, and Clackamas tribes, among many others, who are the original stewards of the land that I'm on.
All right. Well, Megan and Heather, thank you so much for being here today. This topic of village is a huge one, and I've been just sort of thinking about it since we decided, decided to have this conversation and it's so vast and far reaching, but I'm excited to see just where we sort of get into today, knowing that it's like a large, a very large topic.
But I think I'd like to start by just bringing in our visions of village a little closer. Like, what do we mean when we say village? What do you imagine when you sort of bring up that word or that idea? I'd love to hear from each of you what village means or looks like to you.
And Megan, if you want to start us off, that'd be great.
Megan Hayne:
Sure! I guess, for me, the first thing is, is I really like the term village. Part of that is just that it harkens back to something that seems old to me, which is a way that I really like to connect to things. But I think, oh, like a village, it's much older than this society that we're living in now.
It's much older than, like, capitalism. Our, my ancestors lived in villages. And I also like that villages are communities, but not all communities are necessarily villages. So the way I would define village is that it's a multi generational group of people, which would be like human people, but also like the more than human members of our community or village, perhaps related around a belief or a sense of kinship or common goals.
Which when I think of like, Ancient times, that would have been like maybe just survival would have been the common goal. And perhaps that still pertains. And then maybe a place for the gifts of the people to be of service. That's where I've sort of landed with what it means to me or what I envision.
And you know, I think part of my village, you know, is the cedar trees here in on the land I'm living or like the red winged blackbird, you know, and so that's part of my village. So I really see it as like an ecosystem as well
Megan Leatherman:
That's a beautiful vision. Thank you Heather, what about for you? What does it invoke for you?
Heather Dorfman:
Yeah, when I was thinking about village, I was thinking about the ways that humans As you were sort of speaking to Megan, the ways that humans have lived together throughout time and through most of the world, and how really strange and unusual it is to live in such isolated sort of homes with maybe, you know, one to a few people in the home, not deeply connected to the homes right around you.
And so thinking a lot about how villages are a site of interdependence. Which again, Megan, I think you were speaking to amongst the humans that live there and amongst the more than human world. So the animal companions, the animals who live in the area, but are not necessarily companions, uh, the plants and the trees and the dirt, everybody else that makes up that village.
And I think one of the things that I was thinking about is that I don't want to sort of like idealize or romanticize what it is to live in a village. I can imagine all the things that. For people living in a village could be incredibly difficult, either, you know, long ago or even today. But when I think about a village and sort of like intentionally creating a village, I think about one that could be really diverse, uh, in all forms of identities.
And is, is a grouping of people, again, who, who come together with some sort of common vision or some sort of common goal, some common needs. And one in which people can really, like, we could practice that sort of idea of to each according to their need and from each according to their sort of gifts and capacities and skills.
And so one, again, where it's, we get to really be in reciprocity and kind of practice all the beautiful things that can come up when we are living very intimately with each other. All the really challenging things that can come up when we're very intimate and dependent with each other and one in which there's like some level of perhaps commitment that you will continue to be in some relationship together through those beautiful and hard things.
Megan Leatherman:
Yeah, I love what you both brought in, and I think I share all of those things, and when I think of village, it feels very close to the ground or close. Maybe it's like you said, close to how we used to live without all this built up environment. But I imagine like houses made of different materials and there's moss and plants growing on the roofs and there's footpaths, you know, through the woods.
We don't have streets or cars and it's just a place that's very close to the ground or the lived environment and not so built up and separate from separate from 1 another, but also separate from people. The dirt, you know, or the, the trees, Megan, I'd love to hear a little bit about your thoughts about, and Heather, you can chime into like the difference between community and village and maybe just how those lands differently in your body or what you mean when you say, you know, not all communities are villages and vice versa.
Megan Hayne:
Yeah, I would love to talk about that because I feel that I am part of some communities that aren't villages and I don't think that's a bad thing, necessarily. I think there's space for both things. But to me, like a community tends to be like people of a like mind, or like I'm really a big part of like a mothering community, right?
And so we're all mothers, and many of us are in the same stage in life. And I think the thing that the village brings in that this community doesn't is that There might be people doing a lot of different things. There's people in different stages of life. And, um, you know, there can be communities around, like, something that's not so generationally specific.
But I think a village has more space for, like, people who have differing viewpoints. And people, you know, who, maybe they're working toward one goal, but they're not all going about it the same way.
Heather Dorfman:
Yeah, and I, you know, I want to go back to Megan Leatherman, what you were speaking to, and that did kind of spark for me, and it relates to your question, which is that I, I agree that I think when I think about a village, I picture something that is very deeply connected to and clearly reliant on land and on, you know, the earth that is our home and the seasons that are our home. We all are. We know that no matter what, no matter if we're living in a sky rise and, you know, never grow our own food in any form, you know, any of that, we're still reliant, of course, on the earth and the seasons. But I think in my vision of a village, that's so clearly a part of our lives and that there's some level of smallness there, if that's the right word for it, but it's, it's more kind of human scale than what sort of communities have become. You speaking to like footpaths and that sort of thing, it makes me think about how, you know, so often people lament that it doesn't feel safe to let kids run around outside in the same ways with less supervision than they used to have.
And so much has pointed to that that really has so much to do with our built environments. We don't have, we are surrounded by streets that are surrounded by cars that are surrounded by people we don't know. And so this idea of spaces that were so closely connected with land, it would, it has to be smaller.
Because there is such a, a, um, day to day, very clear reliance on the relationship we have with the earth and the relationship we have with seasons. And so it's going to be smaller and it's something where kids and elders and everyone can have kind of a more accessible area, but one that's not quite so sprawling and disconnected from us, um, as like cities can become.
I agree. I'm, you know, a member of really beautiful communities and I, I'm so grateful for all the different ways that communities can form and show up in my life. And yeah, I think there is something different about a village in that our mutual need for each other is, is very, you know, it becomes almost, you know, our livelihood really depends on that, those relationships.
Megan Leatherman:
Yeah, it seems like you're both speaking to the idea that a village is a place where you make a life with people. It's not a, maybe more temporary or more focused coming together, which again, isn't bad at all, but there's something here about, it's like your whole life. It's not just, you know, a thing that you come together to do.
Yeah. I love the idea. I love the way you spoke to Heather and the way you put it, like the. A village, at least in a physical, tangible sense, could also be a place where it's like safe to move at a different pace in your life. Like kids need to go slow. Elders need to go slow. Um, you know, people of all different abilities need different things that aren't always easy to access and super built up civilized culture.
So maybe along that thread, what are some of the needs that you imagine being met more easily in a village than maybe the way that we live now inside of this culture.
Heather Dorfman:
Well, I think I will just speak to one of the things that I see a lot is that because we live in, in again, very much smaller kind of core groups, so whether that's us living alone or living with some kind of, you know, maybe one or two other people, perhaps a partner and some kids, um, of course there are people who live with many more people than that, but that's kind of the dominant. norm is that things like grief and joy are harder to be held collectively.
And you know, that those, those life human experiences that make up the You know, a rich life, they're just too big to be held with just one or two or a few people. And so I think what a village can do, and yes, you know, village can be many different things, but is be that kind of group of people and other beings that can be really present within and help to hold those experiences, to uplift them, to help us make sense and meaning of them, to help us create ritual around them in ways that are supportive. And so I think that, yeah, there are just ways that those sort of more deeply rooted relationships can make all of our life experiences something that we can, um, more deeply experience and be less totally overwhelmed or isolated through.
Megan Hayne:
Yeah, I love that.
It makes me think about how there's so much that we're sacrificing all the time at, like, the altar of capitalism and, you know, what that takes from us. It can almost be hard to see a different way, but I think that when I really sink into village, I can, I can see it. I see Village as a huge part of the solution of everything that we're giving up when we try to be these isolated little siloed, like, consumers of everything.
Just the other day, in fact, I was thinking about this because I was eating strawberry rhubarb something, and somebody asked me, like, Do you grow rhubarb? And I was thinking like, no, I don't. My sister grows rhubarb. Why would I grow rhubarb? Like, one rhubarb plant makes enough rhubarb for like, you know, a bunch of people.
But there's just a million examples like that in my life that like, you know, Why do I need to, like, cook dinner every night if also my neighbor needs to cook dinner every night, and that neighbor needs to cook dinner every night. If we got together, like, I wouldn't need to cook dinner every single night.
Like, you know, it's just things like that that would, that would cause a big paradigm shift if, if they were to change. But I, I see, like, twinklings of that possibility when I think about Village.
Megan Leatherman:
Yeah, I love the way you put that. I think all of that Is so true. And I, when I imagine, you know, perhaps in the future, the way that we're living, not being sustainable even more so and breaking down more and more, you know, kind of like the rhubarb example, I don't know very much about like permaculture or water filtration, or like, I don't know things that we will probably need to know to live inside of a wonky collapsing environment, you know, but if enough of us got together, my one, the one thing I know could be helpful and I could benefit from, you know, other people with resilience and other areas. Um, so, yeah, I think there's so much potential there that we will end up really needing that might actually be required.
But I also see it, like, benefiting from the skills of others, but also being in a place where there's enough skill and knowledge and support to live more in alignment with our values. I mean, I think so many of us do want to live lighter on the earth and do want to eat better and drink cleaner water and make sure everyone in our circle is cared for and has what they need.
But like you've both alluded to, that's too much for one person to do. And so I think the only way maybe to access that, I keep bumping up against this, like really wanting us to be healthier and like, you know ingesting so many microplastics and like all of these things that I want, but I bump up against the fact that we're just one little family trying to do it.
And I wonder how much health or wellness or just sturdiness could open up if we, you know, pooled some time and resources and intention. So I think climate resilience is top of mind for me when I bring in the village and just how I would, I would like us to survive, or at least, you know, I would like us to survive and maybe enjoy some of life and maybe life could become more enjoyable even as the planet warms, if we, if it pushed us to come together in these different ways.
So yeah, anything else you want to say about needs that could be met through the village or things that we would have to give up to, you know, be in village life? Like Heather said, it's not, it's not perfect. We don't want to idealize it. And what are some things you think we'd have to sacrifice?
Megan Hayne:
Yeah.
And I think, um, the answer to that is two parts, right? Like it's, we would have to give up the strong need for self reliance that we've been schooled to think is like the most important value to have. And that's uncomfortable to give it up. It's uncomfortable to give up your privacy. Like I personally love my privacy, but like to really village with others, I think requires a certain amount of openness that, you know.
And some of that is just social conditioning, but, you know, there's a discomfort in it. And, you know, we also might have to give up the need to reinvent the wheel constantly and constantly come up with the next great thing, or, you know, we might have to change the way we work with each other and hear opinions that we don't like and all of these things.
So I think ultimately what it speaks to is there's discomfort, but there might also be a lot of joy in it. So I think it's both things. I think there's potential for so much more hope and joy together, but then also, yeah, the, the nakedness that it requires is, is big and definitely Formidable.
Heather Dorfman:
Yeah, I, I think about, I mean, I think you named so many, that's so clear, those, those pieces that you pointed to, Megan.
And yeah, I think about really sort of convenience and comfort, um, which are such really useful tools for capitalism to keep us isolated. Again, when things are very convenient and comfortable, as you have spoken to Megan Leatherman, I, I like things to be easy and comfortable. And also we can lose access to the, to the richness of life.
Again, I just think that there's so much that we can gain and that there's a real need to challenge ourselves. I saw something recently about how so few of us get to really use our hands in the way that most humans have through most of human history and how that's really sort of reshaping our brains, and it may relate to things like depression and anxiety.
So, you know, having to engage with our hands to build things, to bake things, to garden, to care for children, to care for elders and each other, those can be really hard to do. And there can be this intimate intimacy, um, that's scary and uncomfortable. And also it can be so meaningful. And I also, one of the things I was thinking about is, you know, When we all got to experience something that was so very sort of antithetical to any form of a village, which was going through that deep isolation in the, you know, couple of early years of the pandemic and thinking about how the children in my life, the children and young people that I worked with.
We're so desperately needing connection with peers and with adults outside of their own home, outside of their own parents and caregivers, and how much they missed out on by not having that, like, in the moment, many of them weren't able to articulate just this, you know, sometimes they had scary and hurtful caregivers that they had to be with all the time.
And sometimes it was just needing that real diversity of experience. And stories and perspectives that they lacked access to. And I think, you know, that's true for our kids and our our youth, and that's true for all of us. That that is one of the most important needs that can be met through deep village type relationships with people is access to the whole world that each person contains and that we lose if we're more isolated.
Megan Leatherman:
Yeah, that makes me think of what you said about a village being more at a human scale and that when we live in these environments that are so built up and busy and sort of chaotic, it's very hard to really see anyone or to feel very seen, you know, but I think that's one of the major things that appeals to me about This idea of village is that we could go slow enough and create these rites of passage or rituals where people could actually feel really seen and connected on a level that most of us aren't really familiar with.
So, yeah, I just wanted to add that is such a core need, and it was definitely missing in the early stages of the pandemic. And I wonder how much we don't even know we're missing because. Very few of us have been held in community and really been, you know, ushered through thresholds and reflected, you know, our strength back to us and all of the things that we've been through.
So, none of us live in a physical village right now, but I know it's like a dream on our hearts. What do you see as like little bridges or opportunities for us to maybe experiment with or embody or create? This idea of village or re villaging, what are the little openings that you're noticing or living into right now?
Heather Dorfman:
Well, I can share. There's a few things. First, I think about it in relationship with the more than human world. So, you know, in the ways that we can deeply connect with Our plant kin, um, and fungi kin and dirt and critters, all of those beings, you know, yes, we live in each, the three of us, you know, just speaking about the three of us, we live in our own homes, and we're surrounded by beings both inside and outside our homes.
So thinking about on a really tiny scale. How that can be its own village. You know, the tree that's in my yard doesn't live in my home with me, they kind of have their own space, but we share some land, and so Being in deep relationship with them or with the animals that appear in my home, the spiders and other critters, you know, how, what, what are those relationships look like?
What does it look like to navigate what sometimes is a challenging relationship with the spider that scares my kid in the bathroom? So just thinking about those kind of ways that those relationships too are. There's some kind of mutuality there, um, and exploring that. And then when I think about with humans, you know, I think any time that we can find opportunities to be in a more emotionally vulnerable place and either be held in that or hold others in that, that that's one way of, of kind of making that deep bridge.
And when we can do also very concrete things for each other, like showing up to, you know, deconstruct somebody's shed or help somebody build a garden, or when they are grieving, making sure they have meals and food and that the dog is walked and the laundry's done, um, you know, all of those things I think are, even if the person is across town from us, or even on the other side of the country, when we really are reaching out with care in a very sort of active and intentional way, I think those are some bridges to that experience of being in a village with, with others.
Megan Hayne:
Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, I was thinking a lot about, you know, working with the land and thinking about how I can be in reciprocity with, you know, the more than human around me as being a big part of this. And also, you know, within my own practice of, you know, trying to cultivate a good and open relationship with, like, my wise And well ancestors and you know, I think that as a village, we could really hold each other in some of those like big, big ticket items like that within, you know, the context of the village.
And, you know, rites of passage for me is a huge one. I think children need rites of passage to be recognized, celebrated, you know, ushered as, um, as Megan said earlier. But if we didn't receive that as children, you know, I think that's one of the things that we're trying to do with Rise Up Rooted is provide a space for adults to at least look at that now as a, as a building block.
Megan Leatherman:
Yeah. I love all of the examples you both shared. I think convenience really is a huge barrier to building a sense of the village. You know, I remember I was having lunch with someone a few years ago and she was moving and I asked, you know, like, do you need help? moving or are you getting friends together or whatever?
And she kind of laughed and was like, I'm way too old to be asking friends to move. Like, we're not in college anymore. Like I'm going to pay for movers, you know? And I totally get that. And we have used professional movers before, but it's, it's kind of like, if you always use professional movers or you always take an Uber to the airport, or you always send a Grubhub gift card, instead of making a meal, that erodes your sense of connection over time. It is very convenient, but I think it does change things when you don't, you know, take, when I don't take my mother in law to the airport, but I put her in a car and send her like it's, it's different. So I think convenience is something that any, like, as much as we can unwind that ourselves, it can only help us in the future.
I also think of just some very practical things. Like I was talking to a friend yesterday about sharing different seeds that she has left over, you know, that she has kept and has extra of that I could plant in my garden. Um, trying to live lightly and like dry my clothes on the line instead of in the dryer.
Like, again, these are, there are so many things that I don't know how to do that will that I will eventually need perhaps in the next few decades, but as much as I can sort of skill build myself or just learn little things about different plants or seeds or techniques, I think is very helpful to. I've also been thinking a lot about our neighborhood as a village, you know, In my heart, I imagine something out of the city and, you know, in the woods far, but I know there's a lot of concern about, you know, people getting their friends together and buying more land and building, you know, and I get that it's, that's like the vision on my heart, but I also wonder what it's like to relate to our neighborhoods as little villages. And last summer we closed the block near our house like every Friday afternoon. And it was amazing to see, I met so many neighbors I had never met before or saw and didn't know their names. It's so simple. It's just two barriers and one block and like just a water table for kids and a tent. And it was so simple and nice. So I just think there's some like little things that even though at times I really want the whole big thing, I want to go like by, you know, a thousand acres with a group of people or whatever. I, I'm not sure what the right path is in that regard, but I do see like these little things that give me a felt sense of village life.
And I think the only choice we have is really to like lean into what we have right now. And I, I do think the work that we're doing together is really exciting and is feeding that desire. But I do sometimes just really wish we could move out and start and do the thing and, you know, ethics be damned and I don't know, you know, but, uh, yeah, those are just some ideas of like little things I'm noticing. Anything you would add to ways you're giving yourself a sense of village life now.
Heather Dorfman:
Well, one thing I would mention that, Megan Hayne what you brought up made me think about is how, you know, many of us believe and see that young people, including ourselves, don't get to go through any kind of formalized, held, structured, rite of passage experience.
Obviously, they're, they're changing and they're growing and that's happening, but it's often done without much intention being brought there. Many of us are really seeing that that is not supportive for young people. And as adults, we, we miss that. I know the three of us wish that we had had something like that and want that for our little ones.
And I was thinking about how, how important that is for the young people who can go through kind of a very clear ritual rite of passage of some kind, but also how important it is for the adults and the elders that are holding that space, how there's some kind of. Clarity of role and sort of a clarity of purpose when you can be that person who is sort of the sturdy one, the one holding that space, the one offering the guidance and the mentoring to younger ones.
There's something incredibly nourishing and meaningful about that. To me, it makes me think again about like using our hands versus staring at a screen all day. There's something in our bodies, I think, that can, for many of us, really responds to, Oh, I'm doing a thing, a concrete thing. And also when we can step into this really clear role of guide and support and even person to challenge as needed.
That's really important for us too, and the shifting role. So when someone moves into adulthood and then eventually into elderhood and ancestorhood, this just, There's something cyclical about that that kind of roots us into what came before and what's to come that I think Many of us feel is lacking and so so desperately want.
Megan Hayne:
Yeah, and I might add to that too that Part of that is also seeing gifts noticing gifts that might not be valued in like this busy like Driven go go go society. I think, um, for me, part of it is looking for the gift in things that aren't so in my face fast demanding that there's And I think it's a lot what Heather was speaking to, it's like, it's so natural for certain gifts to show up when we, like, really live in conjunction with, you know, the, the cycles of life.
Megan Leatherman:
Yeah, I think you speak to this idea that like, we have needs that are not met in the way that we live and that's like a, an empty cup that we need to have filled. But you're right, Heather, there, we do have a need to give out as well. It doesn't feel good to just take, or, you know, at some point it becomes too much, but it has nowhere to go because, you know.
We don't have, there's not a very clear avenue for adults to then come and mentor or support young people or elders. So yeah, the, the need goes both ways. We need to receive a lot more, but I think we also, even though so many of us feel like we're poured out or giving out a lot constantly, sometimes I think the giving out isn't always very meaningful or reciprocal.
So it feels we're giving a lot more. And I think maybe not benefiting from how wonderful it would feel to know that we're giving to these young people or other beings that really need that and appreciate that where there isn't that sense of purpose and clarity, like you said, well, I, you know, the season, the season of the podcast is all about needs and how we can support, you know, how a young thing comes into a Become an older thing, if that's its destiny.
And the way that that gets done is through meeting its needs, you know? And I think re villaging or a village. Mentality or orientation can, I think, be sort of a GPS or a little guidance system for how to meet some of our needs in a better way. But I'd love to hear about what needs are really up for you right now, like material or immaterial.
What needs are present in your life right now? And are you finding any helpful ways to meet them that maybe do sort of honor this more villaging orientation?
Megan Hayne:
Yeah, so I'd say, um, we've touched on it a little bit, but for me, the biggest need that I have up is like, I feel like I need to find ways that I'm not feeling like I'm solely responsible for everything, especially in regard to my children, I think.
But, um, you know. This is in many ways in my life, like, I feel like I have this little voice in my head so often that's like, You're solely responsible for this! This is all on you! Like, get it done! Push through! And so, like, just ways that I can find to soften that voice in my head. And, um, some of that is me giving up control that works a little bit well, but like, yeah, also finding places where I can go with my children where other people have an eye on them and they're not afraid to like, you know, have a conversation with my six year old or, you know, for me, sometimes it's like finding people and places that align with that.
And, you know, I wish like, Like you were saying, that I could just walk out my front door and there were walking paths where my kids could just run and be part of everything. But yeah, if that's not happening, then I need to find places where that can happen more or less.
Megan Leatherman:
Yeah, and I've heard you talk before, Megan, about how you have this desire and I share this too, you know, I know you're really involved with other mothers, but how just lovely it feels when our kids have non parents to connect with, like these people who maybe have more energy or a different insight or a different way of relating to them and just how good that feels.
To know that children have lots of different kinds of people and of different ages who may be parents or not, and that how just how lovely and supportive that feels, because I, I imagine, like, when I think about needing more support for my family, my head first goes to, like, who are the other parents who understand that this is hard or could do child care, but it's also really nice to connect with, you know, an aunt or a friend who, you know, doesn't have kids and maybe isn't burnt out in quite the same ways, um, and maybe not burnt out.
Yeah, that's just, I, I imagine that it's a key part of village life that it's not all parents, it's not all people doing the same thing, but many different kinds who can circle around everyone.
Megan Hayne:
Yeah, and I think there's people in my life at least who want to spend time with my kids who don't have kids and it's like also about finding like those times and places.
Places where that works really well, right? Because yeah, I've had many people say like, Hey, I'd love to come hang out with you and your kids. But then it's like, okay, let's find the forum for that. Because if we're just like, constantly grinding all the time, like there's no space for it. So it's, there's a slowing down that's needed for that , I think.
Megan Leatherman:
Yeah, and I want to hear your response to Heather, but one thing I'll say that made me think of that, that feels really core to this village idea is just how, I don't know how you both feel, but I get so overwhelmed by all of the logistics and scheduling that has to go in to like any kind of relationship right now, like, we're not super close with our neighbors.
So it's not like people are just stopping by. It's like, I have to send it. Yeah. Texts or emails to all of these different people to try to see them and have them in my life. And they have to be these like planned get togethers. And then there's someone sick or there's a cancellation or whatever. And I just imagine how nice it would be to just.
Live in a place and people just stop by and we don't have to make play dates or all these intricate plans, you know, two months in advance. And it's just this like free flowing village square kind of you're in and out. And you just had these nice, sweet little chit chats or not, or yeah, I just, I don't know if you feel the same way, but it just feels like a lot of, it's like a part time job for me to organize our family's life and schedule.
Heather Dorfman:
Yeah, I can relate to that. I mean, I feel like the scheduling piece really, you know, it can seem like, oh, it's so hard to plan things, but it really can impact our relationships. I've been noticing that a lot of really struggling to make time for all of these people that I really want to spend time with, either just me one to one or us as a family.
And you're right, it really does We don't, so many of the people we want to spend time with, we can't just walk out our front door and go knock on their door. Um, I will say I get a little taste of that through my kiddo who is very good buddies with a few of the kids that are around us in this home.
We've only been here for two years, but for them, they're able to like run across the street and go play at the friend's or, you know, the friends will sometimes Go for a walk with their kids and invite our little one along, um, and that has been so special and it has been that sense of like, Oh, right. I don't have to be the only one who takes my kid on a walk or goes to the park with my kid or even gives my kid lunch sometimes if they're over there, then they have whatever lunch that the other family is having. And just that little taste has been really lovely. And yeah, I think I have a real need for even more of that. Yeah. I think the other needs that are really up for me are just deep, intimate, authentic connection all the time.
So that's, it's, as always, it's with the more than human world and the human world. And that's what I'm always looking for. I feel like there is such limited time. We all have our one little, bit of wild and precious life. And so I want to spend that with people where that that's what we're doing, that it's not sort of surface and it's not making things okay for each other.
It's actually being able to be with each other in the raw, tough stuff. And with people who are really committed to being, yeah, being really present with, with the things that are incredibly hard. And what I find is that people who are willing to be present with the really hard. Stuff, um, also have a greater capacity for joy and laughter and deep connection.
And so that all goes together to me and that's a need that I always have. And I'm so grateful when I can find that and I could always use even more of it.
Megan Leatherman:
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for speaking to your needs right now. Mine feel very practical. Um, our healthcare costs are going way up next month. I don't know what the program was, but we got some kind of extra benefit through like COVID legislation or something that is ending this spring.
And so you're going to have to pay a lot more for healthcare. And it made me, it feels like we need to be really healthy because it's, we like can't afford to go to the doctor. Like, I mean, we could, but it's like, Oh wow. I need to get serious about, you know, my health and I'm, I am healthy, but like it just put it into a different perspective for me.
And again, like I said earlier, I just imagine myself having access to a lot more health in a village setting, but how can I. create more of that for myself now, whether it's again, accepting seedlings or starts from a friend and trying to eat a little bit more of fresh food that we grow. Or I think just being, just even feeling like you're part of a community or a village is so good for your health.
I mean, we, there's lots of health repercussions due to loneliness or isolation. So yeah, I'm just thinking about like, I'm thinking a lot about our physical health right now. Um, and how that. Would or would not be met in a, in a village and what it would look like. So anything else you want to say about village life or this vision you have on your heart or your desire to live, you know, in a village type way?
Anything we haven't touched on that you want to mention?
Heather Dorfman:
I think I would just say Megan what you pointed to before which is You know, there are so many questions about ways we could form villages and, you know, is it right for groups of people to move out of the city and buy up more land as, you know, we know humans are encroaching on so many really needed wild spaces.
I, too, grapple with that desire. And, um, Yeah, I think that there's never going to be the perfect sort of embodiment of a village, even if we did, you know, buy up some land and have these beautiful little houses that seem to grow right from the forest and full of footpaths. There would be plenty of challenging and Difficult aspects to it right and ways that it doesn't sort of align with the division we have.
So I think there is something really powerful about living into like allowing that vision of the village to flourish. So not trying to sort of tamp it down because it feels impossible or inaccessible, letting it really flourish in us and letting it inform the way we live our lives and are in relationship with each other, even very much as we stay perhaps rooted where we are.
Yeah, I guess just gratitude for this conversation and something that I'll be continuing to consider.
Megan Hayne:
I'm really grateful for what you were just saying, um, it definitely speaks to, yeah, I had this idea to say that for all intents and purposes, I actually did kind of grow up in a village. I grew up in a small farming community of like a hundred people and they all kind of We all kind of lived together, um, and there were so, there was so much that was really hard about that.
And for a long time, I kind of didn't want any part of it in a certain kind of way. However, yeah, as I've had my own children and moved into more life experiences, I see all the good things about it now too. And um, the way that sometimes, yeah, that I didn't always feel like I got along with the people in that community, I can now see the ways that that was actually vital to like growth and I love what Heather was saying about how you can let the idea of the village or like your desire for the village inform the decisions you make and how you relate to other people, how you relate to your more than human kin and your environment, like it can change the way that you relate, and I think that's helpful.
Megan Leatherman:
Yeah, thank you both so much. Well, Heather, do you mind talking a little bit about this work we're doing together, Rise Up Rooted and how, you know, it really comes out of this shared desire we have for village life and, um, yeah, could you talk a little bit about what it is and when it is and anything you want to share about it?
Heather Dorfman:
Sure. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, something that's so, so dear to my heart. It's been so beautiful to create and craft this with the two of you. Um, and especially in the ways that we're also rooted in sort of an earth based and anti capitalist. Um, and how we're also interested in creating those relationships of care and reciprocity amongst us as humans and with land and more than human beings.
So Rise Up Rooted is a four workshop series, and it's really centered in this idea of essentially rite of passage opportunity and ritual for adults. It's with the idea that as adults, we have these beautiful opportunities to care for others. And often we do that in a way that's very sort of informal, not structured and not supported.
And so it can feel like, as you spoke to earlier, Megan, that when we're offering out and we're supporting, it's coming from a already empty cup. And so this is an opportunity for people to really kind of fill that cup very intentionally. To be deeply cared for, to explore their own histories, their own stories of, um, who they have been throughout their life.
And what are those touch points that maybe they can't always access or don't remember about their needs to be warmly welcomed and cared for. And the gifts that have been part of who they are, maybe even from childhood. Um, the things that they have yearned for and how that can point them to the path that they may wish to put their most, you know, most of their life energy toward.
So thinking of this as sort of an overall arc of, of rite of passage and sort of a journey through exploring our own lives and to do that within community or to do that within sort of a created village space. Um, so there are four workshops. They, you know, uh, can be taken as standalone experiences. They do really inform each other, but, you know, if only one or two are accessible, people are very welcome to do that.
Uh, they will take place at, um, Oak Island, um, in some land that I know, Megan, is very near to your heart and that you're in deep relationship with. And, um, what I will say about that is also that all of us are bringing a lot of thought and intention to how do we, how do we be in relationship with the land and the beings that live there?
Um, how do we be of service to the land and the beings that live there? And Megan Hayne, I know you can speak even more to that. So we'll spend three of those weekends through the spring and early summer at Oak Island, and we'll have a culminating overnight sort of retreat at Stub Stewart campground, which is just outside of the city, but feels pretty far.
And it's like in the trees and just a lot of opportunities to really deepen into this experience. And this is all with the idea, you know, for me, and I think for you too, as well, looking to mother trees as an inspiration and the way that they are so firmly rooted and share out care and protection to the rest of the forest.
And so, how do we kind of grow into that, that sturdiness for our communities, our village, our family? That's a little bit of what I'd say about it.
Megan Leatherman:
Yeah, anything you'd add, Megan?
Megan Hayne:
Well, I think that was very thorough, actually, and well said. But, um, yeah, I guess I would add just that, I think all of us are hoping this can be sort of a platform to have conversations about how we can village and be part of a village, um, in, you know, in these times. And I think for me that's a really vital piece of it.
Megan Leatherman:
Thank you both. Yeah. Listening, I was like, Ooh, that sounds nice! So the first one is April 21st. It's a Sunday and we'll be talking about and moving through this idea of becoming, being the seed and nesting and what talents you were born with.
And every gathering will include. I think solo reflection time with the land. So it's not like we're just trying to be these human teachers, regurgitating human wisdom. We will absolutely be, especially in the overnight, um, making space for people to hear their own, what they need to hear from the land and not just us.
So, yeah, I'm really excited. And I'll put the link to that in the show notes. Can you, each of you, do you mind just sharing a little bit about what you do in your individual work and where people can find you?
Megan Hayne:
Sure. I am a mother, foremost, in my work, but I facilitate also a womb holders circle, and that happens about every six weeks in my home, and, um, we talk about the womb and what it's like to of a womb in the world.
And yeah, go through various seasonal structures around that and menstrual cycle awareness. And uh, information about that can be found, um, primarily right now on Instagram. I'm MoonCycleMegan on Instagram, and that's, um, mainly where I'm posting. And that's a great way to get ahold of me as well.
Heather Dorfman:
Well, I can share my practice is called Rose and Cedar Forest Therapy.
And so I, um, offer forest therapy or also known as forest bathing to groups and individuals. And I do that directly through kind of my practice, but I also partner with many local organizations to offer group forest therapy, especially, um, groups that are focused. specifically for queer and trans folks, and also for grieving folks.
I also do, um, offer something called grief care, which is a one to one grief support for folks who are grieving from any kind of loss, and that's really sort of infused with the spirit of force therapy. I really see that as an offering that I do in collaboration with the more than human world. Um, and I also do some organizational consulting, like trainings and supervision of, uh, interns and that sort of thing.
So those are some of the ways that I work with the community and you can find me at Rose and Cedar Forest on Instagram and roseandcedarforesttherapy. com is my website.
Megan Leatherman:
Awesome. Thank you. Thank you both. I'll put everyone's links in so people can find you. Thank you so much for having this conversation with us today.
Heather Dorfman:
Thank you so much. It was lovely to talk with you both.
Megan Leatherman:
Okay my friend, I hope you loved that conversation. I encourage you to connect with Heather and Megan individually. And if you're in the Pacific Northwest, of course, we'd love to have you at Rise Up Rooted . Thank you so much to those of you supporting the show financially, either once or monthly.
It means a lot to feel your support, um, both materially and immaterially. And if you enjoy the show and are in a position to chip in once or monthly, I would appreciate it so much. And you can do that at buymeacoffee. com slash Megan Leatherman. I will be back with you in two weeks to continue this discussion on needs, and I hope you take such good care.
I'll see you on the other side.