Earth and Soul, with Leah Rampy
Why should we listen to the land, and how do we even do so? In this gently flowing conversation with Leah Rampy, we discuss the benefits of communing with the Earth and ways to deepen the relationship that we already have with the land.
About Leah:
Leah Rampy, Ph.D. is a writer, speaker, retreat leader, and educator who weaves ecology, spirituality, personal stories, and practices to help others deepen their relationship to the natural world. She is the author of Earth & Soul: Reconnecting amid Climate Chaos and a frequent speaker on spiritual ecology and leadership in these uncertain times.
To connect with Leah, visit her website or Instagram page.
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Megan Leatherman: Welcome to A Wild New Work, a podcast about how to divest from capitalism and the norms of modern work, and step into the soulful calling of these times we live in, which includes the call to rekindle our relationship with the earth. I'm Megan Leatherman, a mother to two small kids, writer, amateur ecologist, and vocational guide.I live in the Pacific Northwest and I'm your host today.
Hi friend and welcome. I'm so glad that we can share this time together. Thanks for being here. We are now in Leo season. The sun has moved into the sign of Leo. We're in the mid summer period. It's the sort of early height of summer here in the Northern Hemisphere, and Leo is a fire sign.
It's a fixed fire sign, so it's like a stable, mature, well developed fire. It's not at the beginning or end of its life. It's burning steady in sort of the center of The fireplace or the hearth where things are happening. And I've been studying the element of fire along with other elements with a teacher who goes by the name of Old School Nate and some other friends.
And I've been learning from him and his teachers that fire is a, the direction of energy sort of moving outward, like every element has a direction, and fire's direction is to move outward. The heat radiates outward, the light radiates outward. And if you think of like, if there was a, if you were in a village, or if you were at a campsite with other people, where are people going to gather?
Generally, it's around the fire. And I think this is perfect for Leo season, because Leo is a fixed fire sign, and Leo is an archetype or an energy that can remind us, show us, that just by us being in our natural vitality and our heat in our gifts, we create light and warmth that others want to naturally be…gravitate towards. That Leo is a blessing to those around them by being who they are, and letting their big heart, that big flame at the core of them, really burn and shine bright, and not overtake everyone, and not be the only light in the world, or believe they are, but to be their own light as much as they are, and to, you know, not overthink things so much, but just let that fire burn in them, let them live into it.
And we all have Leo in our charts. We all have fire in our bodies. And so this is an element that we can all pull on and work with, especially in this summer period. And if you've been feeling like things have been a little too hot or a little too fiery, I know there's a lot of that happening in our world today, and I want to acknowledge that, I think one of the the simplest, most effective things we can do is just go to water. We really don't have to overthink this. If it's a hot day, if things in your life are feeling too hot, if the world is feeling a little, you know, on fire, literally or metaphorically, you know, keep it really simple.
Go to a lake, go to the river, put your feet in, go for a swim, drink some water with herbs in it. It really doesn't have to be complicated. Go to the water and I think you'll know what to do for your next step. So, just wanted to offer that because that's been sort of keeping me steady in these last few weeks.
But, even though we're in the sign of fire, our season's theme for the podcast is on communicating with the earth. And this is, this will come together really beautifully because fire needs the earth to have a home. A fire can't just get ignited midair without some source of fuel and it can't stay, it can't continue to burn unless it is grounded inside of some container, most often on the earth. It needs a place where it can originate and burn and soak up oxygen and where its ash can fall. So in this season of the show, when we're learning about how to communicate with the earth, the earth can teach us a lot about fire. about when things are too hot, when there's too much light, how fire can be rebalanced on our planet and in our lives right now.
And we can't learn those lessons or make a home for them or really know how to be in the fire of our own gifts and ourselves without having a relationship with the earth, with the land that you live on. The earth has things to say about you - what your gifts are, the work that you do, it has things to say about your worries, your desires, your relationship with your parents or your kids, whatever it is, the earth, the land, can and will speak to it.
It is not this inert, dead, silent being who doesn't know you or know that you exist. The earth is where life is made. It's where understanding can be made. And it's this deep, ancient, way older than us. It's always going to outlast us place where wisdom can be found. And we are really in desperate need of the Earth's wisdom right now.
And there are people in our lives and in our communities who are attuned to that wisdom and can share it with us. And one of those people is my guest today, Leah Rampy. Leah Rampy, PhD, is a writer, speaker, retreat leader, and educator who weaves ecology, spirituality, personal stories, and practices to help others deepen their relationship to the natural world. She's the author of Earth and Soul: Reconnecting Amid Climate Chaos, and is a frequent speaker on spiritual ecology and leadership in these uncertain times. And I really enjoyed having this conversation with Leah. We talk about this idea of earth and soul being woven together, that they're not actually two separate things.
We talked about communion and how she communes and hears from the earth. It's a really sweet blend of. ideas that feel both old and really fresh, but also some practical techniques for just living better. Just like enjoying your time here more, being known by the place that you inhabit, and knowing it, and really loving where you live, even if it's in a high rise in Chicago. If you have this yearning to To live better, feel better, be known, have a sense of belonging, the earth is still right there under your feet. It may be under a few layers of concrete or metal, but it never goes away. I just read today about this, um, aboriginal quote or idea that the cities that are put upon the land are just a scab. You know, they'll just fall off. The land is still living and circulating and living, you know, underneath. And so I think that's a nice way to be reminded that all of the built up ness around us, which can feel permanent and like it separates us from the earth, is as, you know, permanent. Porous and temporary as a scab.
All that to say, I hope you love this conversation. I think you will. A couple announcements before we dive in. First is that I have a new class available if you're in need of some nature based support in your working life, especially. It's called Fruition: Expand Your Options and Make Fruitful Choices, and it's about this wisdom of the spring and summer season, our growth cycles, how to really grow, how to make it feel as juicy and pleasurable and colorful as the fruits and the flowers that are blooming in this time.
Um, it's been really helpful for me personally to find a different rhythm of growth. by living in alignment with the seasons. And so if you feel like you could use a dose of that kind of spring and summer medicine, that class is available to you anytime. It's $22 and you can find it at awildnewwork. com slash shop.
My other announcement is that for those of you local in the Oregon area or in the Pacific Northwest, uh, I'm concluding, along with my friends Heather Dorfman and Megan Hayne, a, what's been about a four to five month program, a land based rite of passage program for adults here, and we have met three times now, and this will be our final gathering, and people have kind of come in and out of the gatherings. Some people have been consistently coming to each one, but many people are, have sort of dropped in or come to a few, not others. Anyway. Everyone is welcome to the final culminating overnight gathering, which will be August 17th and 18th. And this will really be a ritual to support people in stepping into their adult roles as mother trees in their lives and then their communities.
And I'm sure you've heard me talk about the mother tree before. Um, It is a literal type of tree, a tree in a forest or in a grove that is abundant in resources that is a hub for the other trees that, you know, disseminates information or resources to others and is sort of a source of information. It holds a lot for the tree community and we have a lot to learn from them and I think we can step into that role in our own lives and it feels really good and it comes with responsibility But we're ready for it and so if you would like to be part of that or if that feels like would be supportive to you right now.
You can learn more at awildnewwork. com slash rise dash up dash rooted and I'll put that link in the show notes but we would love to have you if this idea of the mother tree and stepping into something new at this point in your life and in this cycle we'd love to have you.
Finally, I am not doing a lot in terms of one on one, real time work this summer, but I have made some openings for three card tarot readings that are rooted in the summer season. So if you feel like you could use a little glimpse or a window into what the universe might be wanting to show you about you and your working journey right now, these are sweet ways to get some intel and next steps and clarity about where you might need to go or how you're being asked to grow in this summer season.
And that's not a public link. I'm just sort of sharing it as needed, but I'll put that link in the show notes in case you would like to book one of those, um, in the month of July. And I'll think about. I'm not sure if I'm going to offer them for August, but you can go to that link and find out if you're listening later.
Finally, finally, I want to say thank you so much to those of you who are supporting the show financially, who have chipped in once or monthly. Sonia, especially you for your recent contribution and sweet words. Thank you so much. If you are in a position to support the show, again, either once or by becoming a monthly contributor.
You can learn more about that at buymeacoffee. com slash Megan Leatherman. Um, but thank you to all of you who are supporting this show, not just financially, but also by sharing it with your communities or speaking kindly of it, or just incorporating the, the things that are shared here in your own life.
That's how these things grow. It certainly doesn't all have to be financial. It can't be. It's your kind words and support and encouragement, um, mean. Just as much if not more. So, thank you, thank you, thank you, and with that I'm going to read our opening invocation and we'll dive into this conversation with Leah.
So wherever you are just taking a deep breath into your belly if that feels good. And if it's been a day already, or if it's been a week, or a month, or a whole lifetime of carrying a lot, you might consider giving out like an audible sigh with your out breath. Just like, uh, really, like letting out the biggest sigh you can.
I can't tell you the like actual biological changes or nervous system changes process that that engages, but I do know that there's something that happens with the sigh, and, uh, it's very helpful. I encourage you to let one out if that would feel good right now.
May each of us be blessed and emboldened to do the work we're meant to do on this planet. May our work honor our ancestors, known and unknown, and may it be in harmony with all creatures that we share this Earth with. I express gratitude for all of the technologies and gifts that have made this possible, and I'm grateful to the Multnomah, Cowlitz, Bands of Chinook, and Clackamas tribes, among many others, who are the original stewards of the land that I'm on.
All right, well Leah, thank you so much for being here today.
Leah Rampy: Thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be with you, Megan.
Megan Leatherman: So in your book, Earth and Soul Reconnecting Amid Climate Chaos, it starts with a story that I heard twice in one week, one in your book. And then again, for the first time on a podcast by Michael Meade.
And it, that really grabbed my attention. I think you said in the book, you also heard it like three times in a row. And it was like, Oh, okay. There's something important here. Um, It's a story of the old woman weaving the world and the black dog. And I was wondering if you would be open to sharing that story with us and then explaining a little bit about why you chose it as such an important frame for your entire book.
Leah Rampy: Yes. Well, thank you for asking that. I've really come to love this story. And in part because it really, I think, provokes far more questions than it offers answers, which, of course, is what a good story does. It's kind of like a good poem with all that space in between where we're, I don't know, every time we look at it, it's giving us something new, I think.
So this is a story of a cave, In which there lives an old woman, and this cave might be close to you. No matter how hard you look, you can never find this particular cave. But in it is an old woman who is weaving the world, and all day. She sits and weaves this tapestry of the most beautiful design. The only time that she leaves her weaving is to walk to the back of the cave where there is this big pot that's brewing over the fire.
And it contains all the roots and the seeds of the plants and the herbs and the grains that feed the world. So this is a very elemental stew, and she must go to the back of the cave to stir this, because if she doesn't occasionally stir this pot, then all of what's in it may burn and who knows, havoc that may cause.
So as she leaves her weaving, she walks very slowly to the back of the cave for after all, she is a very old woman and has been doing this for as long as anyone knows, and as she's slowly returns, there's a black dog. That had been lying asleep at her feet and that dog awakens, the dog begins to sniff around at the weaving and pull at one of the threads and then another and another until eventually the whole weaving lies tattered, pulled apart on the floor of the cave.
And as the woman returns. She sees all of these hours and days and weeks and years of work lying in tatters on the floor. So she pauses, and she looks, and she waits. And then eventually, she bends and picks up one of the threads and begins weaving again, the old pattern forgotten. She's weaving anew, the most beautiful pattern in the world.
So that is a story that I heard three times. And, um, it took that long for that to sort of sink into me and invite me into that story to wrestle with it a bit. And I'm glad that you heard Michael Mead because, of course, he writes about that. in his book as well. And, and I've read that story. He, uh, he tells it and retells it and weaves it beautifully.
Megan Leatherman: Thank you. That was beautiful. Maybe you could speak a little bit to why that felt like the right beginning point for your book. And it's something that you again, weave all throughout the book and refer back to. Why did it feel like an important frame for your writing of this?
Leah Rampy: Yeah, there are a couple, there are a couple of reasons, Megan.
Um, first of all, there's something that from the beginning of the time I started writing this book, the word reweaving was really showing up for me. And I just kept feeling that it was time that we started reweaving our connections. Now, I want to be clear that I believe that our connections to Earth aren't fully broken, that they could never be broken.
We would not be alive if our connections were broken. So, in that sense, um, you know, reconnecting, Earth and soul, I think could viably be challenged as the right word, but it's a little hard to find the exact right word because we certainly have frayed our connections, and that's a part of what I wanted to impart this idea that.
This is what Joanna Macy, the wonderful wise elder who writes about three different possible stories that we might be living in, and she calls the Great Unraveling. So I do think there's a lot of unraveling that's gone on, a tearing apart of the beautiful fabric of this amazing earth in ways intentional, accidental, but certainly ongoing. So that's, that's one element. I also think it's kind of interesting to play with the role of the black dog and what that really means to us, I was teaching some of this in a class and, you know, people were very annoyed that the woman didn't put the dog outdoors and, you know, couldn't you discipline that dog in some way, which of course we all might want to do, like we have this tendency to want to fix the problem, right?
But a good story, of course, holds that opposition and invites us to ask the question as to whether this is always happening? Are we always tearing apart what has been? Is there always chaos? Is there always starting anew? Um, because the story can be told on many levels. We could tell it about the world and we can tell it about our own particular journeys through life.
So, there are many ways to look at the role of the dog. The dog can be an adversary. The dog can be doing just what dogs always do. In one part of the book, I mused about the dog, thinking of our own dogs that we have and how they sniff out things that are rotting and wondered what is in my story that maybe should be pulled out, you know, we could think of competition or greed, some sense of scarcity, selfishness, things that are in our lives that maybe would benefit from being pulled out of the fabric that we're weaving. What I think is really interesting, though, is that the woman does not immediately chastise the dog. She does not rant and rave. She doesn't, you know, pitch a fit and throw things. She simply sits and looks.
And gazes upon this to see what's being invited to see what's coming to her. So that also speaks to me of these kind of threshold times in which we live, where the old story is being torn apart. We know we can't go back to the world as it was, and we're standing there on the threshold. And yet what is new, what is being invited, that story's not really been told yet.
We don't know, there are many tellers of that story and there may be glimpses of what it might look like, but it's certainly not fully fleshed out where we might want to go in our, in our collective future. So those are a few of the reasons that that story appeals to me. And because it's just always a mystery.
Megan Leatherman: Yeah. I remember being shocked by the woman's response, you know, not reacting the way I might, you know, a dog had done that. And yeah, I think it's so interesting how different parts of the story will stand out more on different days. And yeah, it's such a rich one. I can. See why you wanted to make it a part of your book. Can you talk a little bit about you know, the title is Earth and Soul and I'm curious how you see Earth and Soul weaving together either in the landscapes or in our own lives. How do those two? Not things or ideas, but how do these two huge parts of our lives and our world fit together?
Leah Rampy: Yeah, yeah. I think you, you probably know that part of what started this journey for me is that I did some, uh, some programs around climate change for people and tried to bring that to the floor. And then I learned more about biodiversity and ecosystem loss, and I tried to bring that to the fore. And then I started doing retreats and pilgrimages that focused on reconnecting and, and falling in love with earth is the way that I used to, uh, to talk about it.
And it just seemed that people were so at a loss for where do I go from here? And, you know, and one extreme, there's just this. Deep despair because we don't know what to do. There's a sense there can be a sense of, you know, wanting to just turn away because it's so hard to face, you know, I just don't want to look at the loss.
And so the more that I was struggling with this, so, you know, how do we live in these times when this is not about putting on our problem solving hats and just like the three easy things we can do that will fix this, right? How do we live in and connect and just kept coming to me that some of this is an issue of our spiritual journey for us, that the way the values that we were espousing the kind of the worldview that in our Western modern world, we were holding that is so true, different from indigenous and earth based peoples was really at the root of this separation. And that separation was at the root of the challenge that that we're facing on so many different levels. So we could talk, we could talk a long time about other ring, which is, um, One of the things that I think is so important to consider, but for me that where I came to is a sense that there's an inward journey and an outward journey.
And I'm saying that because that's the only way I know how to frame it in words. And it makes it sound as if those are two separate things, but I actually think they're part of a whole. So the inward journey is the sense of who am I? At my truest self, what is the essence of who I am, which then opens me to a conversation about what do I bring?
What are my gifts? And how am I connected to this amazing living world around me? Outward peace is really making those connections, like being open, vulnerable, present to, available to, this world. human and beyond. It's not like we do such a great job connecting to each other, but we certainly do that a little bit better than we do connecting to our, our non human kin.
So that's, um, that's an important part, I think, both of those, both of those, uh, practices, the practices of going inward to open more fully to who we're invited to be and discerning what is ours to do in connection and collaboration with the world around us. And then listening more deeply so that we can become more aligned.
That's where I'm looking when I talk about earth and soul. Everything belongs together in this journey.
Megan Leatherman: That makes sense. Thank you. Yeah, that's helpful. I think, it sounds like one of the ways or one of the tools that helps on those journeys is something that one of your chapters on communion.
And I wanted to ask you about this. But first I want to share an excerpt from your book on this, from this chapter communion. You wrote quote, “We've been discussing times of communion to remind us that such moments are real and possible, but suppose the communion was not intended to be a glancing blow that occasionally stops us in our tracks and fills our senses. What if it were possible to live in communion? To reweave the frayed connections between our souls and the living world. From our birth, each of us was woven into the soul of the world. And it's doubtful that we can ever be fully separated. Of course, we can continue to live as if connections don't matter to live distance from both our inner and outer natures to deny the longing of our soul. Yet life in edge times is calling us to reweave connections, to become all that we are fully intended to be for the sake of the world.”
I just thought it was really lovely. I do think of communion and in the book preceding this quote, you're talking about specific examples of people experiencing awe and your own experiences of that.
And I do think of it as kind of. these discrete, limited experiences where I have felt that sense of communion and oneness. And I'm really curious what it might look like to live in communion, like you say. And yeah, I just wanted to hear your thoughts about this concept.
Leah Rampy: Yes. And I would love to be able to tell you that I figured that out.
You know, um, I, um, I aspire to that and I think it's probably like anything else, you know, where. We hope that we are attentive to those moments when we can be more open hearted and connect beyond words, because that's really what I'm talking about is living in a way that that we are connected so deeply that words are immaterial.
We know a little bit of that, right, because we know that if you and I were sitting in a room together and, you know, your eyes started welling up with tears and, you know, maybe you were not saying a word, but somehow I start feeling that, you know, that deep sadness that you're holding, then, you know, You know, we've had that experience, then when we feel ourselves tearing up, you know, we feel ourselves sad.
We know that our hearts are, are built to do that, that they attune to each other. So then I think the practices, how do we keep opening our hearts to all that is around us? And stopping the thinking mind that wants to run ahead so quickly and figure out our grocery list and you know, name everything that's in sight and solve problems.
Can we just set that in abeyance for a little while and be more deeply connected heart to heart or soul to soul, whichever way you want to call that. And so I think of, if we were to try to live more that way, we would try to be stacking those moments, right? So that there's, maybe I only manage that once a day, which would actually be quite a lovely thing, right?
But maybe I only manage that once a day, but then I notice Where I have had that experience and maybe I begin to notice what's, um, supporting me in that kind of an experience, you know, which might be slowing down. It might be pausing to sit. It might be, you know, turning off all of my cell phones and, you know, anything else that's ringing.
In my ear. So I think we begin to notice what gets in our way and what helps us to be more attentive and attuned and listen more deeply. And we practice. We practice. I mean, you're going to do yoga, you practice. If you're going to do meditation, you practice. If you're going to do somatic practices, you know, they're called practices for a reason.
So we practice because we have an intention to be more connected. because it matters to us, because we care.
Megan Leatherman: I imagine this is something that you do in, or that you're conscious of in every aspect of your work, but I wanted to ask about Church of the Wild Two Rivers specifically, and how maybe you can share about, A little bit about what that is, but also your journey to facilitating that or being part of that. I'd love to hear just how you got into it, what it is, and maybe then after we can talk about. recommendations you might have for people who would like to be in a practice like that, but you know, aren't in your location or in a place like that?
Leah Rampy: Well, um, I should back up and say that there is something called the Wild Church Network, um, and because there are a number of wild churches around the U.S. and, and Canada, and they're very different. I mean, they have, they have a core of commonality. And, uh, I think in a lot of silence being part of them, and also a real intention to be connected to the living world, to be outdoors. Um, but some of them are like picking up a church service and bringing it outside on one end.
And, the one that I lead is much more like a group of people who come together. We come together once a month for two hours outdoors, and it's an it's really a practice. You know, it's an intention to be together in practice. We form community in real time. And by that, I mean, everybody's welcome. You don't have to come again the same time. There's no membership. You just show up if you want to show up. There's usually about 20 people more or less who come. A few core, many new, some come once and then we don't see them again for eight months and then they come back and say, Oh, I'm sorry, I was away or whatever. So like I said, we, you know, we have an intention about forming human community within the larger community.
The, um, I call it the sermon, the sermon is a 40 minute silent walk in the living world. So we'll come together around a theme. Um, and, you know, the theme doesn't really matter. That could be about, um, you know, how we feel connected to water or what's the message of trees or what do we notice about winter and the invitation to rest?
We listen a lot to the seasons. There's several of us who have interest in kind of the Celtic seasons, and we may bring that in. The background of people who come, some have specific religions, some have none. We're not focused on any religious message or doctrine. We're about how do we open our hearts to this amazing world around us.
So I will tee up a question, but it's always optional whether you want to live into that question or you just wander around and see what's available, but, you know, breathe into it, calm, sit, heart open, sit, stay seated, wander the trails. listen, come back, share, you know, then other things happen. Somebody might bring some music, we might sing, we might have a dance, uh, sacred circle dance, we might sit around the fire if it's in the middle of winter, uh, sometimes there's drumming.
I mean, those things happen because members of the community have an interest in that. And, uh, you know, and when I say members, I use that term loosely because, like I said, it's just who comes and who wants to be there. Practice is the important thing, you know, the practice of being present.
Megan Leatherman: That sounds like a lovely gathering.
I'm curious if you meet at the same place every month and if so, how you feel like the land may or may not respond to your presence, or do you feel like the place knows you now, or how does that relationship feel?
Leah Rampy: We have a place that we mostly meet. It's a retreat center that is fairly near where, where I live.
And, uh, It's interesting because the retreat center usually sends somebody there to, uh, to be kind of steward of the lands while we're there. And we were just, just there recently, and no one showed up. And I sent a note to the Director and said, I maybe, maybe you weren't counting on us, but we were there and you know, all was fine.
I just wanted you to know. And she wasn't quite sure what happened, but I said, well, no problem because you know, we're really at home there and that feels true. You know, that feels true because you are sitting among the same trees and we also occasionally go elsewhere. You know, we might go to a nature center that's nearby or we might go to a, um, an herbal sanctuary that's nearby.
So a couple of times a year, we also venture into other territory just because there's such beautiful opportunities. What we're looking for is just a place where we can be in the living world and not, you know, to try to set aside some of the distractions. Do the trees know us? Yeah, some of them do, I think. And some people have their favorite trees.
Megan Leatherman: What would you recommend for people who maybe, you know, haven't heard of the Wild Church Network or don't, who can't do that right now, but who do want to connect in a sacred way regularly.
Leah Rampy: So I think there's, there's several things.
You know, I collaborate with the Center for Spirituality and Nature, and they have a little booklet called Inside Out, I think, and they have a, they have a number of practices. And I think those are always, um, a wonderful option to just take a practice and. Um, might be about tuning your listening. I am, I'm very fond of inviting people to sharpen their senses, you know, one at a time.
So you just go out and you sit and you do nothing but listen, close your eyes, just listen, or walk in a pine forest and simply tune into what you smell, what you hear. Just, you know, you can, I, I did a class recently and I was inviting people to do this practice and it was raining and some of this, I was doing the class on zoom and it was raining where many of the people were.
And so I gave them multiple options, you know, to go outside, put your raincoat on, put your boots on, go outside, or sit on a porch, or gaze out a window, or go to your vegetable drawer and take out whatever you have that is a living thing. Living being right a plant and sit with that because I mean, if we cut open and look at a cabbage, that's pretty miraculous.
I know that sounds totally goofy, but it's it's quite amazing when we tune our attention when we tune our gaze to something. There's so much we can do. We can discover David George Haskell wrote about, uh, spending a year with, um, meter size mandala to study in the middle of an old growth forest in Tennessee and, um, He's a, I believe it's a biologist.
I think it's a botanist. But anyway, he wrote that at the end of the year, he, it was clear to him that there was so much there that never in a lifetime would he be able to understand all the life that was in that small circle, you know, and this is a scientist saying that. So, you know, some of it is to just be with what is in front of us.
Slow walking for people who, you know, need to move and don't want to sit, feeling our feet on the ground, step by step. Um, there's just so many ways that you can invite yourself to be present. Um, and there are, of course, retreats and programs for people who want to do that online as well as face to face.
Megan Leatherman: I'm curious how, I mean, it sounds like sharpening the senses is a big part of this, but I'd love to hear how you feel the earth speaks to you or connects to you. How would you describe the way communication or exchange happens and what might you say to others who are listening? Are hungry to be more in conversation with the earth themselves,
Leah Rampy: You know, that it's so ironic, isn't it? Because, um, we're trying to describe the indescribable, you know, when we are really in communion with, with something words fail us. And I give some examples of that in the book where we, where I've, you know, I've had experiences, but I don't know really how to describe them to you fully because they are beyond words.
I gave an example of a experience I had leading a pilgrimage in Cuba, where Um, we brought together people from the U. S. and Germany with people from, uh, Cuba. They were prison chaplains and, and we invited them to be in a conversation with each other using their own language, which meant that they really, for the most part, didn't understand each other.
in terms of the way that we would say. And yet there was a way in which when they shared, they did understand each other at a level that was beyond the words. So sometimes the words get in the way. We're pretty facile with our words. And so we are trying to share in ways that convey a feeling, a sense. Um, and yet it doesn't do it.
It just doesn't really. Does it really give you the picture of that?
Megan Leatherman: You know, you mentioned like people having a certain, a favorite tree that they connect with, or curious if you have, if you take your concerns or fears to a place, and if you feel like there are certain beings that you share those with, or just what that exchange is like?
Leah Rampy: Well, I certainly do think that's possible to take your, your concerns. So I just, um, I'm writing another book called, um, Discovering the Spiritual Wisdom of Trees with a colleague of mine, Beth Norcross. So we're co authoring that and we are in the final edit phases. So I've just been writing about that with trees, about inviting trees to be our soul friends.
And to choose a teacher tree that you would, you would sit with and come to know. So I think many times it does take like a good friendship. It does take going back to the same place over and over again to listen and to sit with. The same being like a good poem, you know, every time you revisit it or like a good story, every time you come back to it, there are new things that emerge because beings coming together every time it's a new situation.
So I think sitting with a tree, asking the tree, what's it like to be you observing how trees are connected. Where do they seem to be sharing? Where do they seem to be receiving? What do you notice in terms of their resilience? How do they seem to be hurting? Um, what, what is, uh, life giving and vibrant about them?
Where do you see that the trees are, are feeling that they are open and willing to be available to you? And maybe your tree's going like, I think you could just leave me alone. I find it so interesting about trees in particular because we know that they communicate through their, their aerosols, right?
And that they send messages to each other, both underground and through their canopies to say, Hey, there are insects coming. You better, you know, Turn on your chemical pattern wavelength in order to see if you can, um, avoid those insects. And so I'm always thinking like, well, they're doing that. So then what are they doing when I walk in the woods?
Like, what are they saying to each other? Is it like, oh, yikes, here, here she comes again, or, oh, this is a friend. Um, We do know, I mean, there's studies that plants know when you are walking by them, so what is that, what is that like? I think there's so much more than we know. I do think it's very easy to share our feelings with a tree or a plant or whatever, once we get over the kind of the, you know, the cultural restrictions, you know, that we've placed on the weirdness of that.
Right. But when we can go out alone, maybe so that our neighbors are not watching us hug trees, if that's if that's what causes us concern, we can go out alone. And I mean, who's who's easier to talk to than a tree? Right? I mean, there you feel like there's not much judgment going on. They're pretty quiet listeners.
They're not interrupting us. I, uh, you, you probably know some of the studies that speak to people recovering from, um, surgeries where if they can see a tree at their hospital window, they recover more quickly. Um, there's less violence in neighborhoods that have trees in them. There, you know, there's all sorts of ways that that trees offer health and resilience to us.
And then my, my concern is also that we remember that there is a reciprocity at place here. And so there's a, not only an invitation, but a responsibility then to say that we're receiving from the trees. And what is it that we then can give back? And I think that's a question we always need to listen into as well.
Not just what are we. What do we take? What do we take? Oh, what? Then do we give in return out of our gratitude, uh, for trees, but also, or whatever being we're, we're talking about, but also our, our sense of responsibility for that kind of kinship.
Megan Leatherman: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I love that you brought the trees in so strongly. Thank you. What the, what would you say about how all of this helps us in these, what you call edge times or these like threshold times? If I'm out, you know, connecting more intentionally with the living world and I'm sharpening my senses or experiencing times of communion, what do you see? What is the connection then between those practices and how I'm either coping individually or as part of my community with these times right now.
Leah Rampy: Yeah, yeah. Gosh, there's a lot of ways to answer that. So one way would be to say that, um, If we're not connected, there's a loneliness that we're living in. And so there's a way in which we're harmed. We know it. We know the statistics about being lonely for other people, connection to other people.
Surgeon general has talked about the epidemic of loneliness, and we certainly saw that writ large in COVID, but there's also this deep, deep historical. generation beyond generation connection that we have to land to place to the living beings around us. And when that's missing in our lives, we're missing something that's also A loneliness, a species loneliness, it's been termed so that's one of the ways in which we feel sad or lonely, or the things that go with loneliness, depression, anxiety, and all sorts of health risks around heart and equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day is what they say about loneliness.
So, we're poorer when we're not connected. The question would be, is Earth poorer when we're not connected? I think one of the ways we're starting to understand how to answer that is that, um, we are seeing that indigenous peoples were connected to forests, to fields, prairies, in ways that we didn't realize, and they were adding value, they were evolving with.
That, that line. Also, I think in terms of connecting, we want to notice that if we don't understand the world around us, then we can't assist it in its own healing. And I think, you know, the earth is, is, um, intelligent, it has agency, it has a real understanding of how it wants to heal. Our job is to assist.
If we don't know the earth well, and by earth I'm using that broadly, any aspect, any ecosystem, any place in which we live, any landscape, if we don't know the earth well, then we risk trying to bring our egocentric view onto the world and offering our solutions to what we see as problems. And we can easily do more harm than good when we're doing that.
So why do we, what do we get out of doing this? I think we can be better partners in these edge times. For understanding what is, what is a forest want? Does it want to be left alone? You know, is, is it inviting us to help protect it? Does it want us to bring in some of the plants that have been destroyed?
Into into the forest. Does it want us to pull out natives? You know, non native species. I think we make decisions like that all the time without really listening to what is already trying to happen within the landscape. That's a that's a permaculture principle, right? To start by listening to the land and and what it wants.
So that's several of the ways I think which, because we are in these, in these really challenging times and because we are probably, I believe we each are, called to bring our unique gifts to the world at this time to aid in at least pointing us in the direction of mutual well being, I don't think any of us is wise enough to know what that is.
Without listening deeply, not only to each other, like you and me listening to each other, but listening to the space in which we're living. And what is it, what is it wanting from us?
Megan Leatherman: Yeah, I love that. I can see how the difference between acting in your life without the listening and then taking a listening posture first and the choices you make will be probably quite different.
So, thank you. Where do you find yourself focusing right now? I know you said you're finishing a book on spiritual wisdom and trees, but where do you feel, where are you being called, I guess, to focus your energy and listen and collaborate with the earth?
Leah Rampy: Yeah. Thanks for that question. That's kind of fun. I have a group of friends and neighbors who about four years ago, we started a little volunteer group called save our soil. And our focus is on regenerative agriculture, supporting that local food, growing your own or supporting those who do grow food locally. We have a little practice we call Lawns to Life, how we might encourage people to replace Grass that is often, um, sprayed with chemicals or fertilizers and, uh, lots of, uses lots of water and mowers and weed whackers and so on.
How do we replace that with native plants so that there's food for pollinators and the native bees and insects and birds, all of which are in crisis? I mean, uh, amphibians, all of them are in, in a crisis, in crisis mode now. So what do we do to help, uh, offer habitat and food for them? So this is our, um, this is my passion right now.
And this is kind of a group of us. I think it's so important to find people who are interested and who want to do some of the same things that seem. we're called to do because it's hard. These are hard things to do in these times to keep going because it gets so discouraging. You know, we start looking at, you know, keeping water on the land, which is also something we care about.
And then pretty soon we're looking at the quality of the water and the plastics and the forever chemicals and all of this. And you can get so discouraged if you're not doing this with others who support you when you're down. They can be up. You know, and you can do the same for them. And so I think it's a it's a community of people.
It's also a community of the other beings on this property, um, that is, um, you know, a bad word to use. I don't like that word, but on this land on this, you know, on this place in which we are so fortunate to live. So that's one of the things that is really important to me. is how we attend to our soil, which is deeply at risk and provides life.
Megan Leatherman: Yes. It seems like the foundation of so much. Oh, that's cool. I'm curious to know, maybe before we start wrapping up, I'd love to hear just a little bit about what your place is like in West Virginia. What is it like there? What's the climate like, what kind of plants do you have? Like, I can't, I've never been there. I'd love to just get a little picture, a sense of it.
Leah Rampy: Well, first of all, I, I live in Shepherdstown, which is a small town in the eastern panhandle of West Virginia. So we aren't that far from, say, Washington, D. C. We're kind of where, uh, Maryland and, uh, West, and Virginia touch West Virginia. We're right on the Potomac River, and I live in a co housing community.
So there are 30 homes here, and one of our, um, values is to do with earth care, maybe another value of community. Our buildings here have been here for about five years. And we have eight plus acres that are in conservation. And so we are tending, this is an old farm. And then kind of a junkyard. I'm sorry to say, but that's, that's what it was.
You know, people threw old tires and what have you here. So we're trying to imagine how that those trees that have grown up can be supported and preserved and more added. We've added several hundred trees, so that's very immediate and yeah, so lot. So it's a tree area. It's an area with, um, not high mountains, but a lot of big hills.
We're on a karst land. So that means that, um, you know, there are caves around. And it also means that water flows downstream, but water also flows underground very easily. So if we have a, you know, if we have a factory not too far from us, we have to care about what their, how they're disposing their water, because it's going to seep into underground rivers that are all.
Throughout this, this porous topography here that we have plants, we have lots of trees around and we have things like, uh, black walnuts and sorts of evergreen trees, pawpaws, oak, ash is struggling because of the emerald ash borer. We have. Oh my goodness, this is a beautiful time of year here because the, the plants are, are just starting to pop out, you know, so we have the, the non native things like iris and poppies and so on that are just, you know, coming out from days gone by and they're, they're abundant in their color.
They're just absolutely beautiful. But also. Things like calendula and chamomile and, you know, herbals that are, that are growing in abundance right now. So, and the, um, yeah, the milkweed is coming up in full force. So you have to be careful when you plant milkweed. It's a good thing because the monarchs are going to be really happy, but it really takes a long time to get going.
But once it gets going, it wants to go. So it's trying to take over a little front here.
Megan Leatherman: Okay, I didn't know that.
Leah Rampy: Yeah.
Megan Leatherman: Thank you. Yeah, I love getting that picture and hearing about your place. So thank you.
Leah Rampy: Thank you.
Megan Leatherman: Is there anything else that we didn't cover that you'd like to say today about reconnecting and earth and soul and how we can be here in a good way?
Leah Rampy: Well, I think, um, just to say that I don't think there's a right to-do list for everybody. I think that is a, that's a journey of discernment that each of us are called to do that sense of what is, what is mine to do comes from the gifts that I've been given. And I think there is a something for each of us that can contribute to this world.
I want to say that I think it’s difficult. These edge times are difficult and a part of our role is bearing witness to the loss, and we haven't really talked about the extent of loss, but it's vast, as you know, and, uh, You know, we can't get back so much of what's been lost, and we're not going to be able to reconstruct the ice that has that has melted. We're not going to be able to get back the songbirds that we've lost. There's there are species that have gone extinct. So, you know, We've lost a lot. We will keep losing. We are living in a time of loss. That is not a call to do nothing. That is a call to say there is something I'm called to do. And if I do mine and you do yours, and we also trust that Earth has wisdom and agency and intelligence, you know, then to me, that's where I find the hope is that there is more than I can understand that can be brought to bear in the healing of this earth. And so, in these times, as I bear witness to the loss, I also want to soak myself in awe and wonder and beauty.
Because that is true, too. And, if we don't hold both of those, Then we either err on the side of ignoring what we're losing, or we numb ourselves to the loss because we don't know how to bear it. And then we lose our agency for addressing the challenges of the day. So this is my hope that we all find a way that we can to both bear witness and then to really see the beauty, see the amazing, amazing, beautiful world in which we live and honor that with, you know, with deep gratitude and the joy that it deserves to enable ourselves to continue the work that will be far more than our lifetime, but at least for our lifetime.
Megan Leatherman: Oh, lovely. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for adding that. Where can people find you and your work? How can people connect with you?
Leah Rampy: Yeah. Well, my main work is, is leading retreats and I, um, I also do book talks, and I volunteer to do a conversation with anybody who's doing a book group. I'm happy to zoom in if there are book groups going on. So, uh, my website is, I always say, cleverly named leahrampy.com. That's also where I'm on Instagram. That you can, you know, that you can find me and I try to post about anything to do with my garden or my book, um, or other things that I find of interest in the, in the world. And then I, uh, I do have a Facebook page, Leah Rampy Writer, but all that's on my website and, um, where I do retreats and talks and so on is also listed there.
Megan Leatherman: Okay, thank you. I'll put all those in the show notes so people have them.
Leah Rampy: Yeah, thank you.
Megan Leatherman: Thank you so much, Leah. This was a really lovely conversation.
Leah Rampy: Thank you, Megan. And thank you for all the work that you're doing to bring these kinds of conversation, not just mine, but the many that you've been doing to bring them to the world. So that's a, that's a real gift. Thank you for your gift and calling.
Megan Leatherman: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.
Okay, my friend. Thank you for being here with us.
I encourage you to follow along with Leah and check out her book, Earth and Soul: Reconnecting Amid Climate Chaos. It's a really handy, accessible, poetic vision of our, what our relationship to the earth could be like. Thank you again to those of you supporting the show, either financially or just with your sweet words and sharing, I appreciate it so much. If you do have the means and want to chip in a few dollars here and there, that is so sweet to me and you can do that at buymeacoffee. com slash Megan Leatherman. I'll be back with you in two weeks with a new episode. All the links that you might need are in the show notes and yeah, I hope you take such good care and I'll see you on the other side.